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Never forget, that China is not Western democracy. So they are not driven with economic gain as such, or prosperity of "the one percent". Many awkward economica

Never forget, that China is not Western democracy. So they are not driven with economic gain as such, or prosperity of "the one percent". Many awkward economical decisions only look awkward for outsiders. Within Chinese system these totally make sense. Beware of approaching any feature in China with a western mindset. So it is probably not what it looks like. It may be some kind of a social sieve purposed for entirely other goal.

jomamaxx 10y ago
" So they are not driven with economic gain as such, or prosperity of "the one percent"" Yes, they are. Inequality is worse in China than in most Western democracies. They have more billionaires in Shanghai than New York (rougly, I may not be perfectly correct) and yet still 100's of millions in abject poverty. Here's the Gini coefficient: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/... But this only measures stated wealth, it's much easier to hide wealth as a Chinese citizens than as a US citizen. Ask someone living in Vancouver.
jerf 10y ago
Chinese are human too. This includes greed in all its forms, the will to power, the construction of awkward systems that get repurposed and only vaguely serve their original goal, and are subject to Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy [1], and everything else that goes with it. The differences between China and the West only seem so large because we are all so similar in the first place, being all humans. [1]: http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html
westiseast 10y ago
What it looks like to me is this: Beijing decides that innovation needs to be a key focus for the economy (for face maybe). It announces funding, sets development goals for local politicians, and writes the buzzwords in all new economic plans and development documents. Local developers and politicians read that, and their instincts kick in - they know now that any development that can show "innovation" will get a green light and throw themselves into it head first. So now, any new development that goes on is not "grass roots" or "green" or "core" - it's innovative, creative. So a bunch of pretty standard, low quality office buildings go up, but now they're called 'Creative Parks'. Rent is low for any business that is 'creative'. So local entrepreneurs fill them with creative businesses - fashion studios, wedding photographers, ad agencies, designers. The businesses do well because they are effectively getting direct government support and investment, and because there's no other genuinely creative competition around to challenge them. Innovation all round! It's a blunt and wasteful approach. It won't necessarily encourage creativity, innovation, new approaches, risk taking. More likely at best it will create a superficial impression of innovative industries, and maybe, maybe that might result in some innovation. This is the China way, and the reason China isn't a global creative or innovative superpower. <Mic drop>
- dilemma 10y ago
  This is the same way it works in every developed nation and every larger city. The difference is just scale and speed.
  - westiseast 10y ago
    Yes and No. I mean, the whole relationship between government, local government and business I described might be similar, but in China that's still the only activity going on. It's improving to some extent, but for example in London or any city really, you might have a genuine creative scene that can jump on a government investment in 'innovation', so the wave will be filled with half- opportunists and half genuine businesses maybe. In China it's more like 95% opportunists, because for years and years that's been the only way to work.

jomamaxx 10y ago

" So they are not driven with economic gain as such, or prosperity of "the one percent"" Yes, they are. Inequality is worse in China than in most Western democracies. They have more billionaires in Shanghai than New York (rougly, I may not be perfectly correct) and yet still 100's of millions in abject poverty. Here's the Gini coefficient: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/... But this only measures stated wealth, it's much easier to hide wealth as a Chinese citizens than as a US citizen. Ask someone living in Vancouver.

jerf 10y ago

Chinese are human too. This includes greed in all its forms, the will to power, the construction of awkward systems that get repurposed and only vaguely serve their original goal, and are subject to Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy [1], and everything else that goes with it. The differences between China and the West only seem so large because we are all so similar in the first place, being all humans. [1]: http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html

westiseast 10y ago

What it looks like to me is this: Beijing decides that innovation needs to be a key focus for the economy (for face maybe). It announces funding, sets development goals for local politicians, and writes the buzzwords in all new economic plans and development documents. Local developers and politicians read that, and their instincts kick in - they know now that any development that can show "innovation" will get a green light and throw themselves into it head first. So now, any new development that goes on is not "grass roots" or "green" or "core" - it's innovative, creative. So a bunch of pretty standard, low quality office buildings go up, but now they're called 'Creative Parks'. Rent is low for any business that is 'creative'. So local entrepreneurs fill them with creative businesses - fashion studios, wedding photographers, ad agencies, designers. The businesses do well because they are effectively getting direct government support and investment, and because there's no other genuinely creative competition around to challenge them. Innovation all round! It's a blunt and wasteful approach. It won't necessarily encourage creativity, innovation, new approaches, risk taking. More likely at best it will create a superficial impression of innovative industries, and maybe, maybe that might result in some innovation. This is the China way, and the reason China isn't a global creative or innovative superpower. <Mic drop>

dilemma 10y ago
This is the same way it works in every developed nation and every larger city. The difference is just scale and speed.
- westiseast 10y ago
  Yes and No. I mean, the whole relationship between government, local government and business I described might be similar, but in China that's still the only activity going on. It's improving to some extent, but for example in London or any city really, you might have a genuine creative scene that can jump on a government investment in 'innovation', so the wave will be filled with half- opportunists and half genuine businesses maybe. In China it's more like 95% opportunists, because for years and years that's been the only way to work.