4 ms·

> "ma'am you're just being detained right now until we can get this all sorted out." Apparently owning a gun and letting the police know of that fact is enough

> "ma'am you're just being detained right now until we can get this all sorted out." Apparently owning a gun and letting the police know of that fact is enough to get you killed. Good luck sorting things out.

teuobk 10y ago
Not making any judgments or assumptions about what happened in this case, but there are better and worse ways of informing a police officer that you're carrying. To start, not all states obligate concealed carry permit holders to inform police that they are carrying. However, if you're pulled over, and you do want to inform the officer, keep your hands on the wheel and calmly tell the officer that you have a permit to carry concealed. Tell them that you are currently doing so -- again, without having moved your hands. Ask them how they would like you to proceed. You will probably be asked where the firearm is located. They might ask you to step out of the car so they can temporarily relieve you of your weapon. They might just say something like "don't reach for yours, and I won't reach for mine." Bottom line: let the officer guide you, and keep your movements slow and deliberate. DON'T say the words "gun" or "weapon" or anything like that. Those are keywords that can trigger an instinctive reaction in the officer, and they might not be able to hear anything else you say thanks to a rush of adrenaline. Interestingly, Minnesota is not a state where CCW holders are obligated to disclose their permit or weapon to peace officers.
- grandalf 10y ago
  The officer didn't even try to help the man as he was bleeding all over the car and clearly unconscious. It's just unconscionable that a trained safety officer would allow someone to bleed like that, and even worse that the officer pulled the trigger.
  - tomschlick 10y ago
    The officer isn't an EMT and if he was really shot 4 times in the abdomen then nothing the officer has would stop the bleeding. Not only that but if the guy really did react in a threatening manner the officer is providing cover to make sure the gun doesn't come back out. I'm not advocating one side or the other on this, just letting you know how the protocols work.
    - grandalf 10y ago
      > in the abdomen I think the shots were in the man's arm. I could be mistaken.
    - rdtsc 10y ago
      > The officer isn't an EMT and if he was really shot 4 times in the abdomen then nothing the officer has would stop the bleeding. Hmm, not sure I agree with "he isn't helping just because he forgot or never learned first aid stuff". For example, there is footage out there of cops shooting their own, and here is what "trying to help even though not an EMT" might look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5SWkEAX64U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5SWkEAX64U
      - tomschlick 10y ago
        I never said he forgot. Only that he is not a trained EMT with access to a trauma kit that would stop 4 GSWs. From the video he is also alone and has to secure the scene until backup arrives. Even if he had a kit in his car, he can't risk getting it with a gun still in the car. From his perspective he felt threatened enough to shoot and the gun is still with the victim(s) which could be turned against him. The video you provided was different because they immediately realized that the undercover officer was not a threat, and had multiple people on scene as well to start helping.
        rdtsc 10y ago
        > Only that he is not a trained EMT with access to a trauma kit that would stop 4 GSWs. From the video he is also alone and has to secure the scene until backup arrives. I was trying to say even if he had a kit and was moonlighting as a rescue squad volunteer, nothing in his behavior indicated he was attempted to help. The video I linked was an example of how "attempted to help" might look like, and there is difference there it seems. Can see the other points of wanting to secure the scene or saying he was threated, but don't see the point at all of "well not an EMT, so that's why looked indifferent to the a person's suffering and death. If only he had a kit with him, he would have knelt down and attempted to stop the bleeding, but didn't so kept pointing the gun at him and watched him die..."
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    Not surprised a bit. Then they handcuffed her as well. That is not just "got confused by adrenaline" at that point. It is a very deliberate tactic police use (I already mentioned below, but in case it gets pushed down I'll mention again) -- The police have to act like they just caught the most vile gang bangers who are wanted for some despicable crime, almost got killed by them, and only due to "rigorous" training and quick judgment by officer so-and-so the day was saved. Starting to help him means, he is not as dangerous maybe, so it looks like murder now. Not arresting her means, the situation wasn't really that dangerous and it looks even more like murder. And besides, if she is arrested, her testimony is now the testimony of an "accomplice" or a suspect -- clearly cannot be trusted.
- Frondo 10y ago
  "You will probably be asked where the firearm is located." Based on recent events, I'd venture to guess that this is true if you're white. If you're not, they may just start shooting.
- cladari 10y ago
  I just hand over my ccp along with my other documents and keep my hands visible. I let the cop decide where to go from there. Florida here ...
nojvek 10y ago
Terrorists have guns, cops have guns, joe and Mary have guns. Go figure. Deaths from gun suicides > deaths from cops killing civilians > terrorists killing civilians. Yes the problem is definitely mexicans crossing the border and Muslims in the country /s

teuobk 10y ago

Not making any judgments or assumptions about what happened in this case, but there are better and worse ways of informing a police officer that you're carrying. To start, not all states obligate concealed carry permit holders to inform police that they are carrying. However, if you're pulled over, and you do want to inform the officer, keep your hands on the wheel and calmly tell the officer that you have a permit to carry concealed. Tell them that you are currently doing so -- again, without having moved your hands. Ask them how they would like you to proceed. You will probably be asked where the firearm is located. They might ask you to step out of the car so they can temporarily relieve you of your weapon. They might just say something like "don't reach for yours, and I won't reach for mine." Bottom line: let the officer guide you, and keep your movements slow and deliberate. DON'T say the words "gun" or "weapon" or anything like that. Those are keywords that can trigger an instinctive reaction in the officer, and they might not be able to hear anything else you say thanks to a rush of adrenaline. Interestingly, Minnesota is not a state where CCW holders are obligated to disclose their permit or weapon to peace officers.

grandalf 10y ago
The officer didn't even try to help the man as he was bleeding all over the car and clearly unconscious. It's just unconscionable that a trained safety officer would allow someone to bleed like that, and even worse that the officer pulled the trigger.
- tomschlick 10y ago
  The officer isn't an EMT and if he was really shot 4 times in the abdomen then nothing the officer has would stop the bleeding. Not only that but if the guy really did react in a threatening manner the officer is providing cover to make sure the gun doesn't come back out. I'm not advocating one side or the other on this, just letting you know how the protocols work.
  - grandalf 10y ago
    > in the abdomen I think the shots were in the man's arm. I could be mistaken.
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    > The officer isn't an EMT and if he was really shot 4 times in the abdomen then nothing the officer has would stop the bleeding. Hmm, not sure I agree with "he isn't helping just because he forgot or never learned first aid stuff". For example, there is footage out there of cops shooting their own, and here is what "trying to help even though not an EMT" might look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5SWkEAX64U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5SWkEAX64U
    - tomschlick 10y ago
      I never said he forgot. Only that he is not a trained EMT with access to a trauma kit that would stop 4 GSWs. From the video he is also alone and has to secure the scene until backup arrives. Even if he had a kit in his car, he can't risk getting it with a gun still in the car. From his perspective he felt threatened enough to shoot and the gun is still with the victim(s) which could be turned against him. The video you provided was different because they immediately realized that the undercover officer was not a threat, and had multiple people on scene as well to start helping.
      - rdtsc 10y ago
        > Only that he is not a trained EMT with access to a trauma kit that would stop 4 GSWs. From the video he is also alone and has to secure the scene until backup arrives. I was trying to say even if he had a kit and was moonlighting as a rescue squad volunteer, nothing in his behavior indicated he was attempted to help. The video I linked was an example of how "attempted to help" might look like, and there is difference there it seems. Can see the other points of wanting to secure the scene or saying he was threated, but don't see the point at all of "well not an EMT, so that's why looked indifferent to the a person's suffering and death. If only he had a kit with him, he would have knelt down and attempted to stop the bleeding, but didn't so kept pointing the gun at him and watched him die..."
- rdtsc 10y ago
  Not surprised a bit. Then they handcuffed her as well. That is not just "got confused by adrenaline" at that point. It is a very deliberate tactic police use (I already mentioned below, but in case it gets pushed down I'll mention again) -- The police have to act like they just caught the most vile gang bangers who are wanted for some despicable crime, almost got killed by them, and only due to "rigorous" training and quick judgment by officer so-and-so the day was saved. Starting to help him means, he is not as dangerous maybe, so it looks like murder now. Not arresting her means, the situation wasn't really that dangerous and it looks even more like murder. And besides, if she is arrested, her testimony is now the testimony of an "accomplice" or a suspect -- clearly cannot be trusted.
Frondo 10y ago
"You will probably be asked where the firearm is located." Based on recent events, I'd venture to guess that this is true if you're white. If you're not, they may just start shooting.
cladari 10y ago
I just hand over my ccp along with my other documents and keep my hands visible. I let the cop decide where to go from there. Florida here ...

nojvek 10y ago

Terrorists have guns, cops have guns, joe and Mary have guns. Go figure. Deaths from gun suicides > deaths from cops killing civilians > terrorists killing civilians. Yes the problem is definitely mexicans crossing the border and Muslims in the country /s