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> I've been thinking about this lately, and one of the problems is that most politics and government can be boiled down to tribalist behaviour and gross general

> I've been thinking about this lately, and one of the problems is that most politics and government can be boiled down to tribalist behaviour and gross generalization. Us vs. Them. The more I learn about history, and see how things like tribalism were the driving factor in many decisions, the more I see the same in our current world. I'm not going to get into politics, but: We have a tendency to look into the past and think "How did those crazy people ever behave that way?!?" and then turn around and do the same exact thing "But our world is different! Our enemies really are the bad guys this time!" We really are just a group of big, technologically advanced tribes, fighting for perceived scarcity of resources. The scariest thing about learning history just how much nothing changes.

ktRolster 10y ago
The scariest thing about learning history just how much nothing changes. It's changed a lot. Several thousand years ago, we realized that having a king solves a lot of problems, such as tribal warfare, and squabbles between small groups of people. Pax Romana it might be called, although it was found on a smaller scale before that. The Greeks appreciated the power of a monarch, but didn't like to be told what to do, and their emphasis on individual freedom eventually led to democracy like the Roman senate. Unfortunately, the roman senate couldn't handle changing demographics very well, and became indolent, corrupt, and useless, so a dictator was an improvement. Throughout the middle ages, philosophers put a lot of thought into the idea of, "How to find the best monarch?" Eventually the United States came up with an idea of how to balance the power of state with individual freedom, and put some procedures in place to handle demographic changes, learning from the Roman's failures. Learning takes centuries, but it definitely happens. The improvements to the legal system since Sumerian times is notable as well.
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  I didn't mean to sound so pessimistic there, and I could have worded it better. I agree we have learned a lot. I think things have gotten much better. My day-to-day life is amazing compared to most of history. But I stand by the statement in the area of: In many ways, we are just large tribes, fighting each other for stupid, selfish reasons. If you abstract things away enough, we may be different, but we still act the same.
  - ktRolster 10y ago
    That's kind of the essence of political science though, right? You have different people, with different desires....how can their differences be reconciled? There is no right or wrong here, just different preferences.
    - CaptSpify 10y ago
      In theory yes. But the implementation of reconciling those differences a lot of right or wrong can happen. That's how wars, institutionalized bigotry, etc can happen.

ktRolster 10y ago

The scariest thing about learning history just how much nothing changes. It's changed a lot. Several thousand years ago, we realized that having a king solves a lot of problems, such as tribal warfare, and squabbles between small groups of people. Pax Romana it might be called, although it was found on a smaller scale before that. The Greeks appreciated the power of a monarch, but didn't like to be told what to do, and their emphasis on individual freedom eventually led to democracy like the Roman senate. Unfortunately, the roman senate couldn't handle changing demographics very well, and became indolent, corrupt, and useless, so a dictator was an improvement. Throughout the middle ages, philosophers put a lot of thought into the idea of, "How to find the best monarch?" Eventually the United States came up with an idea of how to balance the power of state with individual freedom, and put some procedures in place to handle demographic changes, learning from the Roman's failures. Learning takes centuries, but it definitely happens. The improvements to the legal system since Sumerian times is notable as well.

CaptSpify 10y ago
I didn't mean to sound so pessimistic there, and I could have worded it better. I agree we have learned a lot. I think things have gotten much better. My day-to-day life is amazing compared to most of history. But I stand by the statement in the area of: In many ways, we are just large tribes, fighting each other for stupid, selfish reasons. If you abstract things away enough, we may be different, but we still act the same.
- ktRolster 10y ago
  That's kind of the essence of political science though, right? You have different people, with different desires....how can their differences be reconciled? There is no right or wrong here, just different preferences.
  - CaptSpify 10y ago
    In theory yes. But the implementation of reconciling those differences a lot of right or wrong can happen. That's how wars, institutionalized bigotry, etc can happen.