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"You know gods and goddesses do not exist." Do not exist as physically-independent entities, yes. That means you define "existence" as in "this rock exists."

"You know gods and goddesses do not exist." Do not exist as physically-independent entities, yes. That means you define "existence" as in "this rock exists." They might be quite real (and even somewhat powerful) as entities populating one's subconscious mind. That is the position adopted, by the way, by some buddhist schools. In that sense, the gods might "exist" very well. The programs running on your computer "exist" on the same level as the subconscious gods anyway.

dantheman 17y ago
By your definition everything exists for the mere thought of it influences your future state, therefore it exists. This a corruption of language and serves no use but to confuse people and lend credence to charlatans.
- FlorinAndrei 17y ago
  Careful with fundamentalist materialism (as with any fundamentalism in general). At the end of that road lie all sorts of aberrations such as "computer programs do not exist" and so on. Really? There's a whole industry built on the opposite idea. :) EDIT: Are you also saying that the subconscious does not exist? It's pretty funny having this sort of conversations with compsci people. They tend to be pretty hardcore and either-black-or-white on issues that do not lend themselves to this sort of treatment at all.
  - dantheman 17y ago
    I don't see how you can say a computer program doesn't exist? It exists as a state in a computers memory. I have no opinion on the subconscious -- in fact I don't really know what it is. It may refer to certain mental processes and then I'd say it exists, but in my opinion it is a very general term. I think that psychology is still too early to say for sure what does and does not exist. If I had an irrational fear of 1000 legged toad and it affected my behavior it doesn't mean that it exists. Now of course we get into all sorts of epistemological problems that aren't solved about our knowledge of reality, etc...
rbanffy 17y ago
What you say is that the fantasy that god X exists is real and has measurable effects. Like software, it's not the software that makes the computer run, but its manifestation in electrical charges their representation creates in the processor's data lines.

dantheman 17y ago

By your definition everything exists for the mere thought of it influences your future state, therefore it exists. This a corruption of language and serves no use but to confuse people and lend credence to charlatans.

FlorinAndrei 17y ago
Careful with fundamentalist materialism (as with any fundamentalism in general). At the end of that road lie all sorts of aberrations such as "computer programs do not exist" and so on. Really? There's a whole industry built on the opposite idea. :) EDIT: Are you also saying that the subconscious does not exist? It's pretty funny having this sort of conversations with compsci people. They tend to be pretty hardcore and either-black-or-white on issues that do not lend themselves to this sort of treatment at all.
- dantheman 17y ago
  I don't see how you can say a computer program doesn't exist? It exists as a state in a computers memory. I have no opinion on the subconscious -- in fact I don't really know what it is. It may refer to certain mental processes and then I'd say it exists, but in my opinion it is a very general term. I think that psychology is still too early to say for sure what does and does not exist. If I had an irrational fear of 1000 legged toad and it affected my behavior it doesn't mean that it exists. Now of course we get into all sorts of epistemological problems that aren't solved about our knowledge of reality, etc...

rbanffy 17y ago

What you say is that the fantasy that god X exists is real and has measurable effects. Like software, it's not the software that makes the computer run, but its manifestation in electrical charges their representation creates in the processor's data lines.