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By that logic, no individual is responsible for anything they ever do because just about everything is "addictive" or "habit forming" in some way. Your suggesti

By that logic, no individual is responsible for anything they ever do because just about everything is "addictive" or "habit forming" in some way. Your suggestion is terrible for a number of reasons, but primarily due to the shirking of personal responsibility that it promotes. Should Hershey be required to pay medical costs for morbidly obese individuals because they eat a dozen chocolate bars a day? Sugar is a highly addictive substance, after all. Should automobile manufacturers be required to pay the medical bills of every individual injured in a high-speed accident because driving very fast generally causes an adrenaline rush, which is addictive? Stop making it someone else's problem. Start casting blame where it needs to be - on the individual(s). Nobody is forced to start smoking, or start drinking, or start eating sweets, or drive recklessly, or to do this or that. I'm tired of the popular trend of infantilization that offloads the burden of one's own actions onto society/industry/government.

Pica_soO 10y ago
That personal responsibility thing works out great doesn't it. https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/Pages/overweight-obesity-statistics.aspx https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statisti... I think it would be a great start if we started to differentiate- some humans are capeable of this, but others are not. To just leave them to there suffering because they had a "choosing-chance" is just wrong. No pr-opaganda can explain the facts on the ground away, sorry.
- 15charlimit 10y ago
  Right and wrong are not objective units of measure, please don't be insulting by trying to state "facts" regarding something being "right" or "wrong". As far as "leaving them to suffer" goes, there are plenty of ways for people to get help with just about every health condition and disorder that's lifestyle related. They simply require that the individual actually take responsibility for their own existence and reach out. Who makes the decision that someone is "not capable" of caring for themselves, and at what level? Do you force them into a special program? Do you take away all of their other individual rights at the same time? Who decides what aspects of personal responsibility apply to which people? That's a very slippery, dangerous slope to tread. Smarter people than you, or I, haven't been able to come up with "the right" answer. I'll err on the side of personal agency, thanks.
Tenhundfeld 10y ago
Ugh, what a nasty little, finger-pointing, stone-casting society you seem to desire. Is there anything that you'd blame on society/industry/government, or is it always 100% the individual's fault?
- 15charlimit 10y ago
  Who said anything about throwing stones, or pointing fingers? Nothing in my post indicates that help should be refused to individuals who make poor decisions and then try to recover from them, just that, in a free society, the onus should not be solely on the head of "a higher authority" (govt, industry, etc) to be responsible for doing so. The world you seem to desire would make cellphone manufacturers and service providers fully liable for accidents that happen when an idiot is using their phone and gets in a car wreck. The individual chose to get into a car, and drive somewhere, and use a cellphone, all at the same time. This despite the fact that it is made abundantly clear that doing so impairs driving ability much like alcohol would, via advertisement and public notice and safety publications, in the news, and even by state law in some cases. You cannot prevent people from doing stupid things. You can, however, make them bear the repercussions of those stupid decisions. The world you seem to desire is one where every device and tool is covered in thick layers of bubble wrap and warning labels and dozen-pages-thick usage contracts to indemnify the manufacturer. The world you seem to desire is one where no criminal is punished for their actions because they were just "a victim of their environment and don't know how to do anything else". And that is something that I cannot and will not agree with, ever, on a fundamental level. Personal freedom comes with personal responsibility. If there's a tool designed in such a way that using it in an accidentally-slightly-incorrect manner will electrocute the person using it - sure, hold the manufacturer responsible. But if there's a tool that does exactly what it's designed to do, but someone uses it for a completely different purpose in a completely different way than it was designed to do, and it electrocutes them - that's on the user's head.
  - Tenhundfeld 10y ago
    > Start casting blame where it needs to be - on the individual(s). Those are your words, my friend. Maybe I misinterpreted them. I didn't say individuals are 0% responsible. It's a mix, right?. Individuals deserve blame but also support. Companies deserve protection from inane lawsuits but also bear some responsibility. > But if there's a tool that does exactly what it's designed to do, but someone uses it for a completely different purpose in a completely different way than it was designed to do, and it electrocutes them - that's on the user's head. Sure. That doesn't apply to tobacco or sugar. We're using it in exactly the way the sellers intended. I don't know why you're stuck on the reckless driving example, when it doesn't really pertain to the general context of the article. > I'm tired of the popular trend of infantilization that offloads the burden of one's own actions onto society/industry/government. Sure. But my question stands. Do you think the society/industry/government ever bears >0% of the responsibility?
nitrogen 10y ago
Nobody is forced to manufacture addictive products, advertise them in misleading ways, pay celebrities and filmmakers to use them conspicuously, or buy prominent product placement everywhere a person trying to quit has to go, either. You are introducing irrelevant other ideas to distract from the core of the OP's argument, which while a bit excessive IMO, warrants an honest discussion, not hyperbolic overreaction.

Pica_soO 10y ago

That personal responsibility thing works out great doesn't it. https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/Pages/overweight-obesity-statistics.aspx https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statisti... I think it would be a great start if we started to differentiate- some humans are capeable of this, but others are not. To just leave them to there suffering because they had a "choosing-chance" is just wrong. No pr-opaganda can explain the facts on the ground away, sorry.

15charlimit 10y ago
Right and wrong are not objective units of measure, please don't be insulting by trying to state "facts" regarding something being "right" or "wrong". As far as "leaving them to suffer" goes, there are plenty of ways for people to get help with just about every health condition and disorder that's lifestyle related. They simply require that the individual actually take responsibility for their own existence and reach out. Who makes the decision that someone is "not capable" of caring for themselves, and at what level? Do you force them into a special program? Do you take away all of their other individual rights at the same time? Who decides what aspects of personal responsibility apply to which people? That's a very slippery, dangerous slope to tread. Smarter people than you, or I, haven't been able to come up with "the right" answer. I'll err on the side of personal agency, thanks.

Tenhundfeld 10y ago

Ugh, what a nasty little, finger-pointing, stone-casting society you seem to desire. Is there anything that you'd blame on society/industry/government, or is it always 100% the individual's fault?

15charlimit 10y ago
Who said anything about throwing stones, or pointing fingers? Nothing in my post indicates that help should be refused to individuals who make poor decisions and then try to recover from them, just that, in a free society, the onus should not be solely on the head of "a higher authority" (govt, industry, etc) to be responsible for doing so. The world you seem to desire would make cellphone manufacturers and service providers fully liable for accidents that happen when an idiot is using their phone and gets in a car wreck. The individual chose to get into a car, and drive somewhere, and use a cellphone, all at the same time. This despite the fact that it is made abundantly clear that doing so impairs driving ability much like alcohol would, via advertisement and public notice and safety publications, in the news, and even by state law in some cases. You cannot prevent people from doing stupid things. You can, however, make them bear the repercussions of those stupid decisions. The world you seem to desire is one where every device and tool is covered in thick layers of bubble wrap and warning labels and dozen-pages-thick usage contracts to indemnify the manufacturer. The world you seem to desire is one where no criminal is punished for their actions because they were just "a victim of their environment and don't know how to do anything else". And that is something that I cannot and will not agree with, ever, on a fundamental level. Personal freedom comes with personal responsibility. If there's a tool designed in such a way that using it in an accidentally-slightly-incorrect manner will electrocute the person using it - sure, hold the manufacturer responsible. But if there's a tool that does exactly what it's designed to do, but someone uses it for a completely different purpose in a completely different way than it was designed to do, and it electrocutes them - that's on the user's head.
- Tenhundfeld 10y ago
  > Start casting blame where it needs to be - on the individual(s). Those are your words, my friend. Maybe I misinterpreted them. I didn't say individuals are 0% responsible. It's a mix, right?. Individuals deserve blame but also support. Companies deserve protection from inane lawsuits but also bear some responsibility. > But if there's a tool that does exactly what it's designed to do, but someone uses it for a completely different purpose in a completely different way than it was designed to do, and it electrocutes them - that's on the user's head. Sure. That doesn't apply to tobacco or sugar. We're using it in exactly the way the sellers intended. I don't know why you're stuck on the reckless driving example, when it doesn't really pertain to the general context of the article. > I'm tired of the popular trend of infantilization that offloads the burden of one's own actions onto society/industry/government. Sure. But my question stands. Do you think the society/industry/government ever bears >0% of the responsibility?

nitrogen 10y ago

Nobody is forced to manufacture addictive products, advertise them in misleading ways, pay celebrities and filmmakers to use them conspicuously, or buy prominent product placement everywhere a person trying to quit has to go, either. You are introducing irrelevant other ideas to distract from the core of the OP's argument, which while a bit excessive IMO, warrants an honest discussion, not hyperbolic overreaction.