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My 2cts, not trying to convince anyone :) Just giving perspective; might help some. There are many ways to do this. The easiest I found is moving away from tox

My 2cts, not trying to convince anyone :) Just giving perspective; might help some. There are many ways to do this. The easiest I found is moving away from toxic environments which, for me (it's personal; other people have different experiences I guess), are cities. You can get everything 'same day', you see many people 'having things' and 'having better lives than you have' (perceived) around you. And a lot of people are showing off their things you don't have; sports cars, new boobs, latest smartphone and so on. And that, even if you don't do it consciously, builds on stress levels, on top of the stress that you 'have to do stuff' otherwise you cannot pay for your tiny, very expensive apartment. Most people I know (exclusively living in cities) don't even dare to invite people in their homes unless they have stuff to show off in there minuscule city dwellings of E800k. In my village people are down to earth, no-one shows off, you get a villa + pool + huge garden for a fraction of what you had in the city and you can survive there for a very long time with very little money because it is much cheaper AND there is a barter economy as well (I fix old computers for people and get food for instance). I would never go back. I think a lot of younger people (me in my younger years) think they cannot live without the 'liveliness' of the city while burning themselves out. Not sure about the numbers obviously but most my friends have since moved and everyone regrets not doing it earlier. Edit: rereading I notice my negative tone about city dwellings; that's because I cannot imagine / phantom that anyone would want to live in a cramped apartment ever and definitely not for that price. While I did when I was in my 20s and I was convinced I would never leave. But I was wrong; in hindsight I was just scared. Once we did try (my wife being a HUGE ex-city living fan, far more than I was) we literally turned 180deg.

ashray 10y ago
What about social circle? This is the biggest question I have when I think about moving to a small place. And when you say small, how small do you mean - and where? A village in, say India, is very different from a developed country. You'd be hard pressed finding running water and electricity in a lot of those places.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  I am in the mountains of Spain in a village with a population of 1600 spread over many many kilometers up in the mountains. Water comes from the spring on our land (we have it checked every 6 months; it's great :), electricity solar; we need the generator a few days per year and 'need' is actually not really true as it never really gets too little sun/light etc. Tons of sun (heatwave now). Social circle; most people here live on the coast which is what you would expect of Spain as per expats and tourism which is what we really don't fancy; most 'beach and sun' people seem to dislike the mountains, at least driving up them. So we are left with people who do and that seem to be people with a same-ish mindset as us; entrepreneurs and generally educated people. Our village is a steaming pile of social when you want it and if you don't, you just go home. Next to that, ofcourse, we have a part of our social lives on internet, which works fine for people who don't mind typing. I met some of my now best friends online (via entrepreneur and tech communities) and we have better discussions than I usually have in person via text chat.
  - simonebrunozzi 10y ago
    How did you decide to move there? How did you pick the place? In which area of Spain is your village?
abledon 10y ago
How did you find / decide on the smaller town to live in? Did you save up a lot of money before moving there incase things didn't pan out in finding a job (were you certain you could find work/provide value fixing the towns computers before you moved there?).
- tluyben2 10y ago
  Well we started some small online-only (virtual) businesses in the country we are both from to make sure we could survive anywhere years before that (we had no clue where we would end up; it was basically just a coincidence). The plan was to live of that anyway once we left; I am however someone who cannot sit still, especially when I have no stress; I will start companies so that's what I do anyway, where ever I am. The computer example is what some of my friends are doing there; it's an option if shit hits the fan. We started in another, much smaller village (100 people) and that actually was in a place that was quite spartan; it was even more beautiful and cheaper to live, but we couldn't make a social life there. There were only artists who were there to make art; they didn't want to socialize, so we move to a random other village and that was a good one. We did not save up; both of us being entrepreneurs, we just left. We sold the stuff we had left in NL after a few years later.
  - serg_chernata 10y ago
    I think you would enjoy the youtube channel of Jamie Mantzel. He did something similar but instead first bought a property in the middle of woods and built a house. Then, several years later, sold that and moved to an island in Panama where he pretty much builds everything he uses and barters with the locals.
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      Thanks for that; subscribed to his channel. I don't really build on my own house; I like electronics & software still too much but I think in a few years I might like to do that.
majewsky 10y ago
> While I did when I was in my 20s and I was convinced I would never leave. But I was wrong; in hindsight I was just scared. 20-something here, living in a 50 m² flat. I can't relate. It's the opposite for me: I would be rather scared about having to maintain a whole house. If I had to make a change, I would rather downsize, but I would have to get rid of a lot of junk first...
- tluyben2 10y ago
  Each his own of course. Do you live alone? As getting a partner will probably change that immediately. That's the first time I hear about that though; most 20somethings I know, even in cities, dream of larger, preferably free-standing, places (in the city possibly).
hibikir 10y ago
As it happes, I have spent quite a bit of time in Spanish villages over the years. They have their own problems. First, you better get good enough internet to work, and that's extremely dependent on the village. In my favorite one, for instance, high up on a mountain in eastern Asturias, the best connections are ancient DSL. Megabytes a second? Gigabit? Nope. Then, there's work and personal networking. Getting a new job in my American suburb is easy. There's meetups, local conferences... all of that is gone in the village, where I'd probably be the only programmer. Being limited to just remote jobs adds quite a bit of insecurity. The large houses with land take a whole lot of work. For instance, in that village, my mother keeps a large village, what in Asturias would call a 'Casa de Indianos'. It requires year around help for cleaning and groundskeeping. You also need to be in the villagers' good graces: The smaller the place, the more isolated you'll be if you are not exactly like everyone else. This is already a problem in small Spainish cities, which feel a lot like villages. The larger the city, the more likely it is to find people that are a lot like you, for almost any definition of you. If you don't like your social circle, you can find another! Also, hope that you found a spouse while you were in a city, because village dating pools are pretty shallow in comparison. In my experience, that toxic environment you mention has little to do with cities in general, and a lot to do with people well off, especially in Spain. I was born and raised there, and I sure couldn't stomach it. I disliked it enough I put an entire ocean in between. Here in the US, I have seen similar things from high society circles: When looking for a good school for my son, I found that most of the top private schools are full of those social games I remember from my childhood. But the city is more than big enough that I could just choose a different school, full of kids of engineers and scientists as opposed to lawyers and doctors, and just not participate in those social games, or have to expose my son to them.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  > Being limited to just remote jobs adds quite a bit of insecurity. Not finding a job in a city is far worse imho. But ofcourse, it is far easier to find one if there are ones you are qualified for. Our goal however was to never need a job, never have to sit in an office and to never have to commute to work. No matter what happens. I will never stop working nor will my wife (until our minds or we are dead) but we don't have to do what we do; we have the freedom here to just to almost stop working for N years and read books in the sun, working a few hours a week to have money for food etc; our brewery (bootstrapped completely with 2nd hand materials and our own work) makes enough for that by now. Most people in cities cannot do that unless they are quite rich (and/or own their house which is paid off/inherited). It is not for all and we're not married to Spain; we'll probably move on. Not having kids was a decision of us that makes that easier as well. > the best connections are ancient DSL. Megabytes a second? Gigabit? Nope. That's with being happy with what you have, right? :) If you are a programmer, like me, what do you need a fast connection for? I never needed one. > The large houses with land take a whole lot of work. Well you can get something smaller ofcourse if you like that (we have something small; still is bigger than our apartment in Amsterdam). Doesn't require too much tbh. For the rest; I am foreign here which might be a difference from your experience. We will always be foreign so we don't get into that good graces stuff. They find us weird anyway. We have some local friends (Spanish, born and raised) and they don't have that either. But yes, the elderly all hate eachother and we just are friendly but as we are not from Spain we don't really get treated in the same way I guess?
simonebrunozzi 10y ago
Curious: where do you live? I assume Europe? Which village/country?

ashray 10y ago

What about social circle? This is the biggest question I have when I think about moving to a small place. And when you say small, how small do you mean - and where? A village in, say India, is very different from a developed country. You'd be hard pressed finding running water and electricity in a lot of those places.

tluyben2 10y ago
I am in the mountains of Spain in a village with a population of 1600 spread over many many kilometers up in the mountains. Water comes from the spring on our land (we have it checked every 6 months; it's great :), electricity solar; we need the generator a few days per year and 'need' is actually not really true as it never really gets too little sun/light etc. Tons of sun (heatwave now). Social circle; most people here live on the coast which is what you would expect of Spain as per expats and tourism which is what we really don't fancy; most 'beach and sun' people seem to dislike the mountains, at least driving up them. So we are left with people who do and that seem to be people with a same-ish mindset as us; entrepreneurs and generally educated people. Our village is a steaming pile of social when you want it and if you don't, you just go home. Next to that, ofcourse, we have a part of our social lives on internet, which works fine for people who don't mind typing. I met some of my now best friends online (via entrepreneur and tech communities) and we have better discussions than I usually have in person via text chat.
- simonebrunozzi 10y ago
  How did you decide to move there? How did you pick the place? In which area of Spain is your village?

abledon 10y ago

How did you find / decide on the smaller town to live in? Did you save up a lot of money before moving there incase things didn't pan out in finding a job (were you certain you could find work/provide value fixing the towns computers before you moved there?).

tluyben2 10y ago
Well we started some small online-only (virtual) businesses in the country we are both from to make sure we could survive anywhere years before that (we had no clue where we would end up; it was basically just a coincidence). The plan was to live of that anyway once we left; I am however someone who cannot sit still, especially when I have no stress; I will start companies so that's what I do anyway, where ever I am. The computer example is what some of my friends are doing there; it's an option if shit hits the fan. We started in another, much smaller village (100 people) and that actually was in a place that was quite spartan; it was even more beautiful and cheaper to live, but we couldn't make a social life there. There were only artists who were there to make art; they didn't want to socialize, so we move to a random other village and that was a good one. We did not save up; both of us being entrepreneurs, we just left. We sold the stuff we had left in NL after a few years later.
- serg_chernata 10y ago
  I think you would enjoy the youtube channel of Jamie Mantzel. He did something similar but instead first bought a property in the middle of woods and built a house. Then, several years later, sold that and moved to an island in Panama where he pretty much builds everything he uses and barters with the locals.
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    Thanks for that; subscribed to his channel. I don't really build on my own house; I like electronics & software still too much but I think in a few years I might like to do that.

majewsky 10y ago

> While I did when I was in my 20s and I was convinced I would never leave. But I was wrong; in hindsight I was just scared. 20-something here, living in a 50 m² flat. I can't relate. It's the opposite for me: I would be rather scared about having to maintain a whole house. If I had to make a change, I would rather downsize, but I would have to get rid of a lot of junk first...

tluyben2 10y ago
Each his own of course. Do you live alone? As getting a partner will probably change that immediately. That's the first time I hear about that though; most 20somethings I know, even in cities, dream of larger, preferably free-standing, places (in the city possibly).

hibikir 10y ago

As it happes, I have spent quite a bit of time in Spanish villages over the years. They have their own problems. First, you better get good enough internet to work, and that's extremely dependent on the village. In my favorite one, for instance, high up on a mountain in eastern Asturias, the best connections are ancient DSL. Megabytes a second? Gigabit? Nope. Then, there's work and personal networking. Getting a new job in my American suburb is easy. There's meetups, local conferences... all of that is gone in the village, where I'd probably be the only programmer. Being limited to just remote jobs adds quite a bit of insecurity. The large houses with land take a whole lot of work. For instance, in that village, my mother keeps a large village, what in Asturias would call a 'Casa de Indianos'. It requires year around help for cleaning and groundskeeping. You also need to be in the villagers' good graces: The smaller the place, the more isolated you'll be if you are not exactly like everyone else. This is already a problem in small Spainish cities, which feel a lot like villages. The larger the city, the more likely it is to find people that are a lot like you, for almost any definition of you. If you don't like your social circle, you can find another! Also, hope that you found a spouse while you were in a city, because village dating pools are pretty shallow in comparison. In my experience, that toxic environment you mention has little to do with cities in general, and a lot to do with people well off, especially in Spain. I was born and raised there, and I sure couldn't stomach it. I disliked it enough I put an entire ocean in between. Here in the US, I have seen similar things from high society circles: When looking for a good school for my son, I found that most of the top private schools are full of those social games I remember from my childhood. But the city is more than big enough that I could just choose a different school, full of kids of engineers and scientists as opposed to lawyers and doctors, and just not participate in those social games, or have to expose my son to them.

tluyben2 10y ago
> Being limited to just remote jobs adds quite a bit of insecurity. Not finding a job in a city is far worse imho. But ofcourse, it is far easier to find one if there are ones you are qualified for. Our goal however was to never need a job, never have to sit in an office and to never have to commute to work. No matter what happens. I will never stop working nor will my wife (until our minds or we are dead) but we don't have to do what we do; we have the freedom here to just to almost stop working for N years and read books in the sun, working a few hours a week to have money for food etc; our brewery (bootstrapped completely with 2nd hand materials and our own work) makes enough for that by now. Most people in cities cannot do that unless they are quite rich (and/or own their house which is paid off/inherited). It is not for all and we're not married to Spain; we'll probably move on. Not having kids was a decision of us that makes that easier as well. > the best connections are ancient DSL. Megabytes a second? Gigabit? Nope. That's with being happy with what you have, right? :) If you are a programmer, like me, what do you need a fast connection for? I never needed one. > The large houses with land take a whole lot of work. Well you can get something smaller ofcourse if you like that (we have something small; still is bigger than our apartment in Amsterdam). Doesn't require too much tbh. For the rest; I am foreign here which might be a difference from your experience. We will always be foreign so we don't get into that good graces stuff. They find us weird anyway. We have some local friends (Spanish, born and raised) and they don't have that either. But yes, the elderly all hate eachother and we just are friendly but as we are not from Spain we don't really get treated in the same way I guess?

simonebrunozzi 10y ago

Curious: where do you live? I assume Europe? Which village/country?