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> Can the government compel my speech ? Can the government compel me to make false statements ? These are interesting questions, but I'm not at all sure the an

> Can the government compel my speech ? Can the government compel me to make false statements ? These are interesting questions, but I'm not at all sure the answer is not 'yes' to both of them, under the right circumstances. The Fifth Amendment would not seem to imply (there's no criminal proceeding, and not necessarily any risk of self-incrimination) and the First Amendment, while applicable, would not necessarily prevent such a thing, in my estimation, if the circumstances were (in the government's estimation) sufficiently dire. Alternatively, in some cases the USG could simply seize the domain name and/or server and serve up any content they wanted. See, e.g., Playpen. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/after-fbi-briefly-ran-tor-hidden-child-porn-site-investigations-went-global/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/after-fbi-briefly... Though presumably they could not do this if the site or service operator were not also implicated in some form of illegal activity.

Kluny 10y ago
> These are interesting questions, but I'm not at all sure the answer is not 'yes' to both of them, under the right circumstances. That may be true, but it would remove any moral ambiguity for me and make it easy for me to stick to my principle. If a judge orders me to make a false public statement, I'll disobey, and accept the consequences. No further justification is needed.
jsprogrammer 10y ago
Freedom of speech entails the freedom to speak only your mind. No one has a valid claim to compel your speech. What sufficiently dire circumstance can there be where a government would have the right to compel speech? I think the 13th amendment would come into play here as well.
- colejohnson66 10y ago
  > What sufficiently dire circumstance can there be where a government would have the right to compel speech? "national security"
- bjt 10y ago
  At least in the US, there are certainly circumstances where the government can compel speech, though in most cases they can't. There is a lot of case law on the subject. It's mostly in the commercial realm (think cigarette labels) but not entirely (think Jehovah's Witness school children who don't want to salute the flag). I'm not aware of a compelled speech case balancing national security interests against first amendment interests as this would be.
  - dTal 10y ago
    Pardon? No one, Jehovah's Witness schoolchildren or otherwise, can be legally compelled to say the pledge of allegiance, stand for the national anthem, or salute the flag. If you know of an instance of this occurring the ACLU would like to hear from you. Or have the rules on this changed when I wasn't looking?
    - bjt 10y ago
      You're right on the law as it stands today, but the current law exists precisely because of a case about Jehovah's Witnesses being compelled to salute the flag in school. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/compelledspeech.htm http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/compell...

Kluny 10y ago

> These are interesting questions, but I'm not at all sure the answer is not 'yes' to both of them, under the right circumstances. That may be true, but it would remove any moral ambiguity for me and make it easy for me to stick to my principle. If a judge orders me to make a false public statement, I'll disobey, and accept the consequences. No further justification is needed.

jsprogrammer 10y ago

Freedom of speech entails the freedom to speak only your mind. No one has a valid claim to compel your speech. What sufficiently dire circumstance can there be where a government would have the right to compel speech? I think the 13th amendment would come into play here as well.

colejohnson66 10y ago
> What sufficiently dire circumstance can there be where a government would have the right to compel speech? "national security"
bjt 10y ago
At least in the US, there are certainly circumstances where the government can compel speech, though in most cases they can't. There is a lot of case law on the subject. It's mostly in the commercial realm (think cigarette labels) but not entirely (think Jehovah's Witness school children who don't want to salute the flag). I'm not aware of a compelled speech case balancing national security interests against first amendment interests as this would be.
- dTal 10y ago
  Pardon? No one, Jehovah's Witness schoolchildren or otherwise, can be legally compelled to say the pledge of allegiance, stand for the national anthem, or salute the flag. If you know of an instance of this occurring the ACLU would like to hear from you. Or have the rules on this changed when I wasn't looking?
  - bjt 10y ago
    You're right on the law as it stands today, but the current law exists precisely because of a case about Jehovah's Witnesses being compelled to salute the flag in school. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/compelledspeech.htm http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/compell...