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My second question: Why do countries prefer to use DST when they could achieve the same effect by changing the work timings, school timings, etc. That is say, t

My second question: Why do countries prefer to use DST when they could achieve the same effect by changing the work timings, school timings, etc. That is say, the work timings are 9 AM - 5 PM. Instead of applying DST in summer, they could instead change the work timings to 8 AM - 4 PM. Why is this not preferred? Isn't it simpler to keep the clock constant and the work timings variable than keeping the work timings constant and the clock variable? Personally, I think it is simpler for me to understand changes in work timings than changes in DST. Several times, I have had to perform mental gymnastics to figure out which way the clock moved and how it affects my schedule, i.e. whether I need to be sleeping an hour earlier than usual or an hour later than usual.

protonfish 10y ago
You are getting way ahead of yourself. The first question is "Is there any measurable value to DST at all?"
- nilved 10y ago
  Yes. DST reduces the risk of car accidents, and the rate of robberies and violent crime. For example: http://www.businessinsider.com/robbery-rates-drop-daylight-saving-time-2015-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/robbery-rates-drop-daylight-s...
  - astrodust 10y ago
    Those statistics are total garbage. Do they compare states and provinces with DST vs. those without? No. Additionally if DST is so great, why not stay on it permanently like Russia? There's also a link to an article on "How to get six pack abs" right after, so seriously, the scientific merit of this is highly questionable.
    - trhway 10y ago
      >Additionally if DST is so great, why not stay on it permanently like Russia? http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/060309-daylight-saving-savings-time-nation-science-sunday/ http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/060309-daylight-s... “Stalin changed the clocks in the spring of 1930,” Downing explains. “He forced all of the Soviet Union onto [daylight saving time]. And then in October he forgot to tell the Soviets to fall back. So the clocks in every Russian time zone were off by an hour for 61 years.” Having mini-Stalin again, Russia started to play with time again: "Since then Russia has experimented with permanent “summer time” and now, as of 2014, eschews daylight saving time altogether for permanent Standard Time. "
      - banksecopsguy 10y ago
        Why does it make sense to have permanent DST instead of a permanent change in office timing? Why permanently change the meaning of what it means to be a midnight w.r.t. the sun when one can elegantly achieve the same effect by permanently changing the office hours?
        astrodust 10y ago
        Less paperwork presumably. Everyone already knows what Russian summer time is. If Russia unilaterally bumped time zones that would require a lot of administrative work. Honestly, if the sun is such a big deal then having summer office hours would make more sense than changing time-zones.
zentiggr 10y ago
I've had the thought floating around for years to start the day at 8AM at sunrise each day, and allow for longer/shorter day durations by just jumping the clock to 8AM the next morning at civil twilight. I know with 100% certainty it will never happen, but I might just build my own custom clock like that for when I retire and don't care who else knows if I'm up or not. ;-)
- dragontamer 10y ago
  They used to do that. Then trains were invented, and it became a pain-in-the-ass when every damn city had 12:00 noon at a different time. And then time-zones were invented and life became sane for the east-west travelers.
  - jloughry 10y ago
    Regarding trains, it was a safety issue. Standard Time (and time zones) were invented to keep train schedules sane. The reason is because two trains occupying the same section of track simultaneously causes loud noises and news articles and paperwork. It was safety, not passenger convenience. As long as engineers kept to schedule—and railroad pocket watches were legendary for accuracy—blocks of track over the horizon could be shared by trains even going in opposite directions at different times.
    - Piskvorrr 10y ago
      Accuracy of railroad watches is a fascinating subject in itself: "a technology program that would require a level of innovative engineering that would not be seen again until the moon landings", to quote this excellent article: http://everything2.com/title/Antique+railroad+pocket+watches http://everything2.com/title/Antique+railroad+pocket+watches
xiaq 10y ago
In China, we do this in schools (at least in my hometown). High school starts at 8:30 in the winter, and 7:30 in the summer.
scotty79 10y ago
The whole reason for clocks was to know when factory workers should start work so moving the schedule was moving the clock.
kazinator 10y ago
DST just moves the entire "coordinate" system, so all schedules adjust together. Suppose some store opens at 8 and you want to go there before school. You have time for that because school is at 9. But, oops, now school is at 8, and the store still opens at 8; the store didn't adjust its hours, whereas your school did.

protonfish 10y ago

You are getting way ahead of yourself. The first question is "Is there any measurable value to DST at all?"

nilved 10y ago
Yes. DST reduces the risk of car accidents, and the rate of robberies and violent crime. For example: http://www.businessinsider.com/robbery-rates-drop-daylight-saving-time-2015-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/robbery-rates-drop-daylight-s...
- astrodust 10y ago
  Those statistics are total garbage. Do they compare states and provinces with DST vs. those without? No. Additionally if DST is so great, why not stay on it permanently like Russia? There's also a link to an article on "How to get six pack abs" right after, so seriously, the scientific merit of this is highly questionable.
  - trhway 10y ago
    >Additionally if DST is so great, why not stay on it permanently like Russia? http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/060309-daylight-saving-savings-time-nation-science-sunday/ http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/060309-daylight-s... “Stalin changed the clocks in the spring of 1930,” Downing explains. “He forced all of the Soviet Union onto [daylight saving time]. And then in October he forgot to tell the Soviets to fall back. So the clocks in every Russian time zone were off by an hour for 61 years.” Having mini-Stalin again, Russia started to play with time again: "Since then Russia has experimented with permanent “summer time” and now, as of 2014, eschews daylight saving time altogether for permanent Standard Time. "
    - banksecopsguy 10y ago
      Why does it make sense to have permanent DST instead of a permanent change in office timing? Why permanently change the meaning of what it means to be a midnight w.r.t. the sun when one can elegantly achieve the same effect by permanently changing the office hours?
      - astrodust 10y ago
        Less paperwork presumably. Everyone already knows what Russian summer time is. If Russia unilaterally bumped time zones that would require a lot of administrative work. Honestly, if the sun is such a big deal then having summer office hours would make more sense than changing time-zones.

zentiggr 10y ago

I've had the thought floating around for years to start the day at 8AM at sunrise each day, and allow for longer/shorter day durations by just jumping the clock to 8AM the next morning at civil twilight. I know with 100% certainty it will never happen, but I might just build my own custom clock like that for when I retire and don't care who else knows if I'm up or not. ;-)

dragontamer 10y ago
They used to do that. Then trains were invented, and it became a pain-in-the-ass when every damn city had 12:00 noon at a different time. And then time-zones were invented and life became sane for the east-west travelers.
- jloughry 10y ago
  Regarding trains, it was a safety issue. Standard Time (and time zones) were invented to keep train schedules sane. The reason is because two trains occupying the same section of track simultaneously causes loud noises and news articles and paperwork. It was safety, not passenger convenience. As long as engineers kept to schedule—and railroad pocket watches were legendary for accuracy—blocks of track over the horizon could be shared by trains even going in opposite directions at different times.
  - Piskvorrr 10y ago
    Accuracy of railroad watches is a fascinating subject in itself: "a technology program that would require a level of innovative engineering that would not be seen again until the moon landings", to quote this excellent article: http://everything2.com/title/Antique+railroad+pocket+watches http://everything2.com/title/Antique+railroad+pocket+watches

xiaq 10y ago

In China, we do this in schools (at least in my hometown). High school starts at 8:30 in the winter, and 7:30 in the summer.

scotty79 10y ago

The whole reason for clocks was to know when factory workers should start work so moving the schedule was moving the clock.

kazinator 10y ago

DST just moves the entire "coordinate" system, so all schedules adjust together. Suppose some store opens at 8 and you want to go there before school. You have time for that because school is at 9. But, oops, now school is at 8, and the store still opens at 8; the store didn't adjust its hours, whereas your school did.