4 ms·

It happened because the majority - the people who voted to leave - are mainly older and roughly speaking don't have to live with the consequences, whereas the m

by flexie 10y ago

It happened because the majority - the people who voted to leave - are mainly older and roughly speaking don't have to live with the consequences, whereas the minority - the people who voted remain - are mainly young and will live with the consequences for the next 30-40 years. Middle-aged and older people are not going to study abroad, they don't need an interesting job in a multinational organisation 20 years from now, they cannot imagine a single digital market or a single financial market anyways, and they don't care about it, they don't care about reserving the option of working abroad one day somewhere in Europe and they are not going to befriend or marry any foreigners anyway. Had you asked the old people in the 1960s whether rock music should be banned, the likely answer would have been "yes". The median age has increased from 34 in 1974 to 40 in 2015 and older people now constitute a majority. That's not a big issue when you let a parliament decide on political issues, since politicians would usually trade favors. But referendums are a crude form of democracy with no room for political bargaining. Matters are presented as either A or B and the winner takes it all.

lazyjones 10y ago
> It happened because the majority - the people who voted to leave - are mainly older and roughly speaking don't have to live with the consequences, whereas the minority - the people who voted remain - are mainly young and will live with the consequences for the next 30-40 years. How is that an explanation? If these surveys are actually true, the reason the vote ended as it did is because younger people didn't care enough to actually vote. The claim that older voters don't care about the future because it doesn't affect them personally as much is just derogatory. You could say that they have invested decades of their lives in the country and care about it more, they also knew life (in the EEC) before the EU was formed in 1993. Young people are just afraid of changes they cannot anticipate and have nothing to compare the status quo to.
- misnome 10y ago
  > Young people are just afraid of changes they cannot anticipate and have nothing to compare the status quo to. Changes with definite, visible negative consequences Versus not having any clue about changes that can not even be guessed at, advertised on explicitly untrue premises? Younger people have grown up less isolated in a much more connected world, where other ways of thinking have not been so scary and alien. This isn't 1993, and despite the hints from the campaigning, having voted to leave won't make it 1993 again.
  - mistermann 10y ago
    > Versus not having any clue about changes that can not even be guessed at, advertised on explicitly untrue premises I've seen some eye opening footage of refugees on TV and youtube - after seeing that, if someone tells me that did not occur, I'd be a little suspicious.
    - misnome 10y ago
      In what sense? There is no doubt that there are large numbers of refugees; but we have partial responsibility for causing/contributing to that. I honestly believe that people don't want to leave their home unless it is serious, and that the portrayal of them all as wanting to just 'Freeload' for an 'Easy life' is nothing but Xenophobia, and FUD peddled by politicians with a personal agenda to push.
      - mistermann 10y ago
        > I honestly believe that people don't want to leave their home unless it is serious Relatively wealthy people do it all the time, why wouldn't someone living in a 3rd world country (which is pretty serious in my books)? > the portrayal of them all as wanting to just 'Freeload' for an 'Easy life' is nothing but Xenophobia, and FUD peddled by politicians with a personal agenda to push Numerous articles and people who actually live in these neighborhoods would suggest otherwise, although to be fair the host countries are doing a terrible job of integration in most cases.
  - lazyjones 10y ago
    > Changes with definite, visible negative consequences What are you referring to? Nothing is presently known about the outcome of the negotiations with the EU. > Younger people have grown up less isolated in a much more connected world, where other ways of thinking have not been so scary and alien. Apparently "not being in the EU" is scary and alien, even though young people from Iceland, Norway and Switzerland also feel very much connected these days.
    - 10y ago
venomsnake 10y ago
I hope you realize that post brexit Britain is not Tokugawa Japan? You will be able to work, study and travel in Europe. You may have to sign a form or two, or show your passport here and there. But the EU will be happy to give Britons a lot of rights as long as there is reciprocity. When I was 14 I needed to spend all night in the snow in front of the Austrian embassy in my country to be able to get TRANSIT visa to visit a friend in Switzerland. Britons will never know what this is like. Even in the worst and most hostile brexit. So stop whining that you are somehow deprived of opportunities.
- flexie 10y ago
  I am not British and I am not whining about anything. Travelling is different from residing, studying and working. Nobody knows whether Britons will be able to live, work and study freely in Europe, including you. Letting Britain keep all the benefits without being a member state is likely not possible without seeing other countries leave the union. Never is a long word, by the way. Before WWI most Europeans could travel across the continent without much trouble. Hop on a train in Scandinavia and get off in Belgrade a day or two later. Then came several decades of closed borders, the Iron Curtain etc.

by flexie 10y ago

lazyjones 10y ago

> It happened because the majority - the people who voted to leave - are mainly older and roughly speaking don't have to live with the consequences, whereas the minority - the people who voted remain - are mainly young and will live with the consequences for the next 30-40 years. How is that an explanation? If these surveys are actually true, the reason the vote ended as it did is because younger people didn't care enough to actually vote. The claim that older voters don't care about the future because it doesn't affect them personally as much is just derogatory. You could say that they have invested decades of their lives in the country and care about it more, they also knew life (in the EEC) before the EU was formed in 1993. Young people are just afraid of changes they cannot anticipate and have nothing to compare the status quo to.

misnome 10y ago
> Young people are just afraid of changes they cannot anticipate and have nothing to compare the status quo to. Changes with definite, visible negative consequences Versus not having any clue about changes that can not even be guessed at, advertised on explicitly untrue premises? Younger people have grown up less isolated in a much more connected world, where other ways of thinking have not been so scary and alien. This isn't 1993, and despite the hints from the campaigning, having voted to leave won't make it 1993 again.
- mistermann 10y ago
  > Versus not having any clue about changes that can not even be guessed at, advertised on explicitly untrue premises I've seen some eye opening footage of refugees on TV and youtube - after seeing that, if someone tells me that did not occur, I'd be a little suspicious.
  - misnome 10y ago
    In what sense? There is no doubt that there are large numbers of refugees; but we have partial responsibility for causing/contributing to that. I honestly believe that people don't want to leave their home unless it is serious, and that the portrayal of them all as wanting to just 'Freeload' for an 'Easy life' is nothing but Xenophobia, and FUD peddled by politicians with a personal agenda to push.
    - mistermann 10y ago
      > I honestly believe that people don't want to leave their home unless it is serious Relatively wealthy people do it all the time, why wouldn't someone living in a 3rd world country (which is pretty serious in my books)? > the portrayal of them all as wanting to just 'Freeload' for an 'Easy life' is nothing but Xenophobia, and FUD peddled by politicians with a personal agenda to push Numerous articles and people who actually live in these neighborhoods would suggest otherwise, although to be fair the host countries are doing a terrible job of integration in most cases.
- lazyjones 10y ago
  > Changes with definite, visible negative consequences What are you referring to? Nothing is presently known about the outcome of the negotiations with the EU. > Younger people have grown up less isolated in a much more connected world, where other ways of thinking have not been so scary and alien. Apparently "not being in the EU" is scary and alien, even though young people from Iceland, Norway and Switzerland also feel very much connected these days.
  - 10y ago

venomsnake 10y ago

I hope you realize that post brexit Britain is not Tokugawa Japan? You will be able to work, study and travel in Europe. You may have to sign a form or two, or show your passport here and there. But the EU will be happy to give Britons a lot of rights as long as there is reciprocity. When I was 14 I needed to spend all night in the snow in front of the Austrian embassy in my country to be able to get TRANSIT visa to visit a friend in Switzerland. Britons will never know what this is like. Even in the worst and most hostile brexit. So stop whining that you are somehow deprived of opportunities.

flexie 10y ago
I am not British and I am not whining about anything. Travelling is different from residing, studying and working. Nobody knows whether Britons will be able to live, work and study freely in Europe, including you. Letting Britain keep all the benefits without being a member state is likely not possible without seeing other countries leave the union. Never is a long word, by the way. Before WWI most Europeans could travel across the continent without much trouble. Hop on a train in Scandinavia and get off in Belgrade a day or two later. Then came several decades of closed borders, the Iron Curtain etc.