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Cool and thanks for sharing. Not as a criticism to you specifically, but a worry I have about technology like Polymer in general: I opened your site and was sta

Cool and thanks for sharing. Not as a criticism to you specifically, but a worry I have about technology like Polymer in general: I opened your site and was staring at an empty grey screen for a good 5 seconds. Maybe your server is busy because of all the HN attention, but I am worried about the future of the web when these kinds of things are becoming normal and acceptable.

tomw2005 10y ago
On what is normally a pretty good connection this took me 14 seconds to load fully. I think the HN attention is increasing.
thiht 10y ago
I encounter the same issue with every single website written using a modern frontend framework: Angular, React, whatever... They're considered to be faster but they look so sluggish at loading, I wonder why this is considered acceptable when it's clearly not. Is it a fundamental issue with this kind of frameworks, or is it due to a bad usage by developers?
- ghrifter 10y ago
  One thing I'm disliking is the amount of sites using React. You get a crazy amount of Flash of Content and things being resized and ordered around during page load. Quite distracting tbh.
- fizzbatter 10y ago
  Bad frameworks and/or bad usage. Ie, a lot of frameworks don't have good/any serverside support. React does, fwiw. From my perspective, a good React site is rendered on the server in most scenarios. Meaning the first page you get is pure html and 100% complete. The JS will load and link everything up, but it's nothing that you'll know. If you click a link before the js loads, it should point to a real url and give you full html again. When the js does finally load, json can be used to load new pages, modifying the content with react, etc. This is also nice because web crawlers (all of them) get simple html, and if a user has JS turned off, they still a lot of your content, perhaps missing some of your UX. I've implemented a couple content heavy sites like this and it's a nice UX. Performs just as you expect in most scenarios. The only complaint i think that could be valid, is that there is, indeed, a fair amount of JS, which on mobile devices is definitely worse off than if it were just static content. This is my benchmark for frontend frameworks for the future. Can i compile it, efficiently, on the server before giving it to the user?
caleblloyd 10y ago
Yes, the initial load is heavy. I think lots of it may be device rendering time after the page is loaded- chrome is the only browser that natively renders web components and every other non-blink browser has to wait for polyfills to load. The JS has got to be hard on mobile CPUs especially. HTTP/2 with server push would help, but I'm hosting on dreamhost shared hosting and they're not HTTP/2 enabled yet. I am using the bundled build option in Polymer which concatenates most of the components, but there's still a lot of assets to serve. Chrome service worker is working though! Load the site in chrome, then go into airplane mode and hit refresh. (not chrome for iOS though, that's WebKit underneath)
- Mithaldu 10y ago
  There's also a simple problem in that you're, on that page, not doing much more than showing simple HTML, however in browsers with JS off, for whatever reason, it shows absolutely nothing. Not even a message that JS is required.

tomw2005 10y ago

On what is normally a pretty good connection this took me 14 seconds to load fully. I think the HN attention is increasing.

thiht 10y ago

I encounter the same issue with every single website written using a modern frontend framework: Angular, React, whatever... They're considered to be faster but they look so sluggish at loading, I wonder why this is considered acceptable when it's clearly not. Is it a fundamental issue with this kind of frameworks, or is it due to a bad usage by developers?

ghrifter 10y ago
One thing I'm disliking is the amount of sites using React. You get a crazy amount of Flash of Content and things being resized and ordered around during page load. Quite distracting tbh.
fizzbatter 10y ago
Bad frameworks and/or bad usage. Ie, a lot of frameworks don't have good/any serverside support. React does, fwiw. From my perspective, a good React site is rendered on the server in most scenarios. Meaning the first page you get is pure html and 100% complete. The JS will load and link everything up, but it's nothing that you'll know. If you click a link before the js loads, it should point to a real url and give you full html again. When the js does finally load, json can be used to load new pages, modifying the content with react, etc. This is also nice because web crawlers (all of them) get simple html, and if a user has JS turned off, they still a lot of your content, perhaps missing some of your UX. I've implemented a couple content heavy sites like this and it's a nice UX. Performs just as you expect in most scenarios. The only complaint i think that could be valid, is that there is, indeed, a fair amount of JS, which on mobile devices is definitely worse off than if it were just static content. This is my benchmark for frontend frameworks for the future. Can i compile it, efficiently, on the server before giving it to the user?

caleblloyd 10y ago

Yes, the initial load is heavy. I think lots of it may be device rendering time after the page is loaded- chrome is the only browser that natively renders web components and every other non-blink browser has to wait for polyfills to load. The JS has got to be hard on mobile CPUs especially. HTTP/2 with server push would help, but I'm hosting on dreamhost shared hosting and they're not HTTP/2 enabled yet. I am using the bundled build option in Polymer which concatenates most of the components, but there's still a lot of assets to serve. Chrome service worker is working though! Load the site in chrome, then go into airplane mode and hit refresh. (not chrome for iOS though, that's WebKit underneath)

Mithaldu 10y ago
There's also a simple problem in that you're, on that page, not doing much more than showing simple HTML, however in browsers with JS off, for whatever reason, it shows absolutely nothing. Not even a message that JS is required.