15 ms·

You're sad that people buying games are trying to have fun?

by Retra 10y ago

et1337 10y ago
Not at all. I plan on buying and playing the game. I just think they could treat the subject matter with a bit more respect -- at least cut out the dubstep -- without ruining the fun.
- debaserab2 10y ago
  On the contrary, Command & Conquer Red Alert piqued my interest in WW2 and made me explore and learn more about, and the game went as far as rewriting the entire plot of WW2. I'm not sure it's all that much of a bad thing that we retell an important part of our history in various different ways including forms of entertainment.
secstate 10y ago
Erich Maria Remarque on his book, All Quiet on the Western Front: "This book is to be neither an accusation nor a confession, and least of all an adventure, for death is not an adventure to those who stand face to face with it. It will try simply to tell of a generation of men who, even though they may have escaped (its) shells, were destroyed by the war." By reducing the suffering of those who partook in WWI to an adventure we insult all those who were destroyed by war.
- Retra 10y ago
  And by asking everyone to remain perpetually solemn, the war never ends.
  - sporkologist 10y ago
    So we need to have fun with war, to make it stop? Not quite understanding you.
    - Retra 10y ago
      Try not taking everything so literally.
      - dang 10y ago
        Please don't post uncivil and/or unsubstantive comments.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      Don't remember where I've read this - maybe it was a recent HN comment - but it went like this: the only value of past atrocities is that they should never happen again. By being too serious about them, we're granting the much more significance that they deserve, which makes it more likely they'll reoccur in the future. I find this an interesting point of view. That said, there's also the point to be made that portraying wars as glorious adventures, we're definitely not helping to raise a generation of people who want peace. Come to think of it, it may be that we're not showing enough violence when making media about war. I remember watching "Saving Private Ryan" as a kid. The opening scene of the Operation Overlord shook me very hard. Since then, when I think of war, in my mind I have a picture of young people dying horrible, painful and pointless deaths, crying out to their parents and God as they hold their own guts in their hands. I think this level of graphic presentation may be needed to really drive the point home.
      - ivanca 10y ago
        Is there any slight evidence of this being true? As a counterexample Japan makes some of the most horrific gory horror movies around but they are one of the most peaceful societies in the world.
- staticelf 10y ago
  Do you hold the same standard for all wars in all of history? Sure for all means, don't buy the game. But it's quite silly to say that anyone is reducing their suffering imo. Do you not enjoy any games/movies including non-fictional wars?
  - secstate 10y ago
    Yes, I do hold the same standard. My faith calls me to uphold the worth and dignity of all people, and showing a picture of a rough and ready man smirking as he's about to bring hell on Earth to another human is not entertaining to me. It would be disingenuous of me to say I've always felt this way. I was a Counterstrike junky in high school and I enjoyed a number of titles in the Battlefield series. So don't take my comment as a holier-than-thou indictment. But I have learned a different path and am trying to make a positive impact on this world. If anything, I stand as a testament that that these games do not define us nor condemn us to being monsters. But I will discourage my own children from being entertained as they watch Hueys swing down over a Vietnamese village with Fortunate Son playing in the background as they bomb the shit out of a small village full of perfectly evil enemies. I did that, and I have learned that reducing the world to good and evil permeates every little interaction in our lives until it becomes exceeding difficult to live the Golden Rule of treating others as you'd like to be treated. Micro-aggressions against others dehumanizes us. Lastly, you are correct, that imagined conflict is actually very valuable to teaching moral lessons, and there are plenty of ways to explore the idea of war with those who don't yet appreciate how destructive it is to reduce an actual conflict in our shared history to black-and-white terms.
mercurial 10y ago
Personally, though I find disrespectful, as a French person, that the two nations of the Triple Entente to suffer the most casualties are "available as a DLC", my major problem with the "historical accuracy not included" attitude is that I doubt most people who are going to play that know much of anything about WWI, and this will likely lead to the same kind of myth you have about WWII (ie, "the USA and to a lesser extent the UK did most of the job on the European theater").
- Retra 10y ago
  Do you find it disrespectful that the Axis can win in a game of Axis and Allies? Games are fundamentally open-ended by their nature. They cannot accurately represent history because history is not open-ended. That is in fact the defining characteristic of history, and it stands in direct contradiction to the concept of a game. And this is an advertisement for a game. Complaining about it not being serious enough is not really that different from complaining that alcohol commercials don't show enough drunk driving accidents.
  - int_19h 10y ago
    They can, however, try to accurately represent history at the beginning of the conflict (or at the first point that is shown in the game). In truth, though, this is a very weak argument as far as WW2 (and probably the upcoming WW1) games go, because they tend to have a storyline that largely follows the actual historical development - i.e. "Axis cannot win" - but with some considerable liberties. That, yes, can be kinda disrespectful in some cases.
  - mercurial 10y ago
    > Complaining about it not being serious enough is not really that different from complaining that alcohol commercials don't show enough drunk driving accidents. It's a complaint that is biased in a particular direction. How would you feel if, in an alternate reality where Europe is the dominant power, you had a game about the US war of independence with US forces as DLC?
    - 10y ago

You're sad that people buying games are trying to have fun?

by Retra 10y ago

You're sad that people buying games are trying to have fun?

Not at all. I plan on buying and playing the game. I just think they could treat the subject matter with a bit more respect -- at least cut out the dubstep -- without ruining the fun.

debaserab2 10y ago
On the contrary, Command & Conquer Red Alert piqued my interest in WW2 and made me explore and learn more about, and the game went as far as rewriting the entire plot of WW2. I'm not sure it's all that much of a bad thing that we retell an important part of our history in various different ways including forms of entertainment.

secstate 10y ago

Erich Maria Remarque on his book, All Quiet on the Western Front: "This book is to be neither an accusation nor a confession, and least of all an adventure, for death is not an adventure to those who stand face to face with it. It will try simply to tell of a generation of men who, even though they may have escaped (its) shells, were destroyed by the war." By reducing the suffering of those who partook in WWI to an adventure we insult all those who were destroyed by war.

Retra 10y ago
And by asking everyone to remain perpetually solemn, the war never ends.
- sporkologist 10y ago
  So we need to have fun with war, to make it stop? Not quite understanding you.
  - Retra 10y ago
    Try not taking everything so literally.
    - dang 10y ago
      Please don't post uncivil and/or unsubstantive comments.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    Don't remember where I've read this - maybe it was a recent HN comment - but it went like this: the only value of past atrocities is that they should never happen again. By being too serious about them, we're granting the much more significance that they deserve, which makes it more likely they'll reoccur in the future. I find this an interesting point of view. That said, there's also the point to be made that portraying wars as glorious adventures, we're definitely not helping to raise a generation of people who want peace. Come to think of it, it may be that we're not showing enough violence when making media about war. I remember watching "Saving Private Ryan" as a kid. The opening scene of the Operation Overlord shook me very hard. Since then, when I think of war, in my mind I have a picture of young people dying horrible, painful and pointless deaths, crying out to their parents and God as they hold their own guts in their hands. I think this level of graphic presentation may be needed to really drive the point home.
    - ivanca 10y ago
      Is there any slight evidence of this being true? As a counterexample Japan makes some of the most horrific gory horror movies around but they are one of the most peaceful societies in the world.
staticelf 10y ago
Do you hold the same standard for all wars in all of history? Sure for all means, don't buy the game. But it's quite silly to say that anyone is reducing their suffering imo. Do you not enjoy any games/movies including non-fictional wars?
- secstate 10y ago
  Yes, I do hold the same standard. My faith calls me to uphold the worth and dignity of all people, and showing a picture of a rough and ready man smirking as he's about to bring hell on Earth to another human is not entertaining to me. It would be disingenuous of me to say I've always felt this way. I was a Counterstrike junky in high school and I enjoyed a number of titles in the Battlefield series. So don't take my comment as a holier-than-thou indictment. But I have learned a different path and am trying to make a positive impact on this world. If anything, I stand as a testament that that these games do not define us nor condemn us to being monsters. But I will discourage my own children from being entertained as they watch Hueys swing down over a Vietnamese village with Fortunate Son playing in the background as they bomb the shit out of a small village full of perfectly evil enemies. I did that, and I have learned that reducing the world to good and evil permeates every little interaction in our lives until it becomes exceeding difficult to live the Golden Rule of treating others as you'd like to be treated. Micro-aggressions against others dehumanizes us. Lastly, you are correct, that imagined conflict is actually very valuable to teaching moral lessons, and there are plenty of ways to explore the idea of war with those who don't yet appreciate how destructive it is to reduce an actual conflict in our shared history to black-and-white terms.

mercurial 10y ago

Personally, though I find disrespectful, as a French person, that the two nations of the Triple Entente to suffer the most casualties are "available as a DLC", my major problem with the "historical accuracy not included" attitude is that I doubt most people who are going to play that know much of anything about WWI, and this will likely lead to the same kind of myth you have about WWII (ie, "the USA and to a lesser extent the UK did most of the job on the European theater").

Retra 10y ago
Do you find it disrespectful that the Axis can win in a game of Axis and Allies? Games are fundamentally open-ended by their nature. They cannot accurately represent history because history is not open-ended. That is in fact the defining characteristic of history, and it stands in direct contradiction to the concept of a game. And this is an advertisement for a game. Complaining about it not being serious enough is not really that different from complaining that alcohol commercials don't show enough drunk driving accidents.
- int_19h 10y ago
  They can, however, try to accurately represent history at the beginning of the conflict (or at the first point that is shown in the game). In truth, though, this is a very weak argument as far as WW2 (and probably the upcoming WW1) games go, because they tend to have a storyline that largely follows the actual historical development - i.e. "Axis cannot win" - but with some considerable liberties. That, yes, can be kinda disrespectful in some cases.
- mercurial 10y ago
  > Complaining about it not being serious enough is not really that different from complaining that alcohol commercials don't show enough drunk driving accidents. It's a complaint that is biased in a particular direction. How would you feel if, in an alternate reality where Europe is the dominant power, you had a game about the US war of independence with US forces as DLC?
  - 10y ago