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As a married person with no kids I feel the same way. I'm not 40, or even 30 yet, but I look at my peers and wonder if they'll grow to regret putting in 60 hour

As a married person with no kids I feel the same way. I'm not 40, or even 30 yet, but I look at my peers and wonder if they'll grow to regret putting in 60 hour work weeks just to make someone else rich. I'm guilty of doing it too, for sure, but it wears you down quick.

bunderbunder 10y ago
FWIW, it can be a bit more complicated than that. I spent my 20s working 60 hour weeks to (mostly) make someone else rich, but doing that helped to get me to a better place by my 30s. Having graduated from school immediately after the dot compost, I'm not sure I would have been able to start out in a good tech job from the get-go. What worries me more is when I see colleagues who have children and are _still_ doing the chronic overtime thing. Missing out on getting drunk in the evenings just to make someone else rich is lame. Missing out on the early years of your kid's life just to make someone else rich is a tragedy.
- zghst 10y ago
  Without kids you have opportunities to network, work on side projects and collaborate as well, etc.
andyidsinga 10y ago
Being in my 40s and having been there (in my 20s) I can tell you they will grow to regret it. That said, its up to people like me running teams and businesses to set the tone - encourage balance while not squandering inspired work. Re inspired work: I once made the mistake of telling one of my employees "slow down a little, i don't want you to burn out and hate working here". He had an astute response: "Andy, I'm inspired I have to keep working on this until its done!" He worked weird hours - night and day for 2 or 3 days ..and when it was done I remember him needing some well deserved R&R. The message from there on out to my teams is - if you're inspired, work. When you're done, rest. I'm not watching when you roll in in the morning, I'm watching the team's accomplishment and morale.
- zghst 10y ago
  You must be one awesome boss
  - andyidsinga 10y ago
    well -- unfortunately not. I have plenty of bad habits and ways I drive my coworkers nuts.
- jakobloekke 10y ago
  I've been lucky enough to have managers with a similar approach most of the time. I cannot overestimate the positive impact that has had on my performance and professional growth. You're the rockstar!
caseysoftware 10y ago
For me, things changed ~18 months ago when I had my son and suddenly, I was less willing to travel, more willing to take breaks when he's awake, and I take ridiculously early morning flights so I'm there to tuck him in the night before. Those opportunities are fleeting. PG talked about it here - http://www.paulgraham.com/vb.html http://www.paulgraham.com/vb.html Fun fact: My son's initials are QA. I made sure the paperwork was signed and out of the room before I pointed that out. ;)
- Joeri 10y ago
  > Fun fact: My son's initials are QA. I named my son Nand and my daughter Ada. ;)
home_boi 10y ago
It depends on what you define as "making someone else rich". I think it is a good trade off to have someone else shoulder all the business risk while I cap out at ~$330k at a reasonable senior level(Staff SE). IMO, $330k is "rich". Most people could retire from 5-10 years of working after reaching the senior level. Once someone reaches the senior level, I assume that the knowledge gained while hustling to achieve the senior level would let him/her dial down to the standard 40 hrs.
- ryanSrich 10y ago
  The only way anyone is making that kind of money as an engineer is if they're working at a handful of large tech cos in the bay. $330k is far from realistic for 99% of tech employees.
mikekchar 10y ago
I was watching a documentary on prodigy musicians one time. The person presenting the show was a prodigy himself and he asked some interesting questions. One was, "How much did you practice when you were young?" and the answer would invariably be 12-13 hours a day. He then asked, "Do you regret not spending that time doing other things?" The answer was also invariably "No". The prodigies in the documentary explained that the time when they were practicing all day was exciting and fun. They looked back on that time with nostalgia because after they got older they neither had the time nor the stamina to practice like that again. "Nobody ever died wishing that they had spent more time in the office" is a popular quote, but I think it is false. I personally know of several people who after they were diagnosed with terminal diseases chose to spend their remaining time working as much as possible. The key to what you are saying is the "just to make someone else rich". I think if you are looking at it as some kind of equation where "I have to do X in order to get Y", often you lose out because it turns out that Y was not worth it after all (especially if you are trading your life for money). However, if you are looking at it as "I can't believe I get to do this all day long!", then I don't think you will regret it. This is not to say that those who prefer a "work-life balance" existence over "work is inseparable from life" existence are much different. It's just that you need to spend your time and energy doing what you love -- getting that balance right. Both groups suffer if they divert their attention away from what is important to them.

bunderbunder 10y ago

FWIW, it can be a bit more complicated than that. I spent my 20s working 60 hour weeks to (mostly) make someone else rich, but doing that helped to get me to a better place by my 30s. Having graduated from school immediately after the dot compost, I'm not sure I would have been able to start out in a good tech job from the get-go. What worries me more is when I see colleagues who have children and are _still_ doing the chronic overtime thing. Missing out on getting drunk in the evenings just to make someone else rich is lame. Missing out on the early years of your kid's life just to make someone else rich is a tragedy.

zghst 10y ago
Without kids you have opportunities to network, work on side projects and collaborate as well, etc.

andyidsinga 10y ago

Being in my 40s and having been there (in my 20s) I can tell you they will grow to regret it. That said, its up to people like me running teams and businesses to set the tone - encourage balance while not squandering inspired work. Re inspired work: I once made the mistake of telling one of my employees "slow down a little, i don't want you to burn out and hate working here". He had an astute response: "Andy, I'm inspired I have to keep working on this until its done!" He worked weird hours - night and day for 2 or 3 days ..and when it was done I remember him needing some well deserved R&R. The message from there on out to my teams is - if you're inspired, work. When you're done, rest. I'm not watching when you roll in in the morning, I'm watching the team's accomplishment and morale.

zghst 10y ago
You must be one awesome boss
- andyidsinga 10y ago
  well -- unfortunately not. I have plenty of bad habits and ways I drive my coworkers nuts.
jakobloekke 10y ago
I've been lucky enough to have managers with a similar approach most of the time. I cannot overestimate the positive impact that has had on my performance and professional growth. You're the rockstar!

caseysoftware 10y ago

For me, things changed ~18 months ago when I had my son and suddenly, I was less willing to travel, more willing to take breaks when he's awake, and I take ridiculously early morning flights so I'm there to tuck him in the night before. Those opportunities are fleeting. PG talked about it here - http://www.paulgraham.com/vb.html http://www.paulgraham.com/vb.html Fun fact: My son's initials are QA. I made sure the paperwork was signed and out of the room before I pointed that out. ;)

Joeri 10y ago
> Fun fact: My son's initials are QA. I named my son Nand and my daughter Ada. ;)

home_boi 10y ago

It depends on what you define as "making someone else rich". I think it is a good trade off to have someone else shoulder all the business risk while I cap out at ~$330k at a reasonable senior level(Staff SE). IMO, $330k is "rich". Most people could retire from 5-10 years of working after reaching the senior level. Once someone reaches the senior level, I assume that the knowledge gained while hustling to achieve the senior level would let him/her dial down to the standard 40 hrs.

ryanSrich 10y ago
The only way anyone is making that kind of money as an engineer is if they're working at a handful of large tech cos in the bay. $330k is far from realistic for 99% of tech employees.

mikekchar 10y ago

I was watching a documentary on prodigy musicians one time. The person presenting the show was a prodigy himself and he asked some interesting questions. One was, "How much did you practice when you were young?" and the answer would invariably be 12-13 hours a day. He then asked, "Do you regret not spending that time doing other things?" The answer was also invariably "No". The prodigies in the documentary explained that the time when they were practicing all day was exciting and fun. They looked back on that time with nostalgia because after they got older they neither had the time nor the stamina to practice like that again. "Nobody ever died wishing that they had spent more time in the office" is a popular quote, but I think it is false. I personally know of several people who after they were diagnosed with terminal diseases chose to spend their remaining time working as much as possible. The key to what you are saying is the "just to make someone else rich". I think if you are looking at it as some kind of equation where "I have to do X in order to get Y", often you lose out because it turns out that Y was not worth it after all (especially if you are trading your life for money). However, if you are looking at it as "I can't believe I get to do this all day long!", then I don't think you will regret it. This is not to say that those who prefer a "work-life balance" existence over "work is inseparable from life" existence are much different. It's just that you need to spend your time and energy doing what you love -- getting that balance right. Both groups suffer if they divert their attention away from what is important to them.