6 ms·

The telemetry is what gets me about Windows 10... why do they need so damn much of it? In days gone by it was a purely opt-in process for various applications

The telemetry is what gets me about Windows 10... why do they need so damn much of it? In days gone by it was a purely opt-in process for various applications at install time and their applications seem to have benefited from it (SQL, Visual Studio and so on) so why do they need to monitor the living daylights out of everything now? And why can it not just be opt-in? I had been using Windows 7/8.1 for several years and decided to try 10... in the whole time I used 7/8.1 on my computer I had no issues at all. No crashes and everything just worked. I had Windows 10 for 1 month and I had 3 blue screens. This was around Feb this year. Uninstall! Back to 8.1 with Stardock and cannot see any reason to upgrade. I have "fixed" my neighbours's computers and my parents several times now with the Windows 10 stuff. It's malware/adware plain and simple.

Frank2312 10y ago
>And why can it not just be opt-in? Right now, it is opt-out. The reason it can't be opt-in is that basic users will never enable it. They want data on how the majority of the users (mentionned above) are using their OS to improve it for their use case. I'm not saying I agree with it (I disabled every telemtry option there is), but I see their point.
- EasyTiger_ 10y ago
  Previous versions of Windows didn't require all this 'telemetry' and those operating systems did just fine without it. Why now all of a sudden it's this important? Pretty suspicious imo.
  - adiabatty 10y ago
    It's nice to know what's popular and what's largely unused; this helps Microsoft figure out where to allocate scarce engineer time for feature development and maintenance. You'd generally want them to fix the most common crashes and UI weirdnesses before fixing the uncommon ones, right?
    - pdkl95 10y ago
      Sure it's nice. Sending data to Microsoft is fine if and only if someone gives their informed consent to give that information (which includes a manifest of the exact information that will be logged and transmitted). Microsoft isn't entitled to this information. Asking is fine, but tricking people with opt-out settings - which they know most people won't notice or understand - or simply exfiltrating data unasked or against the user's wishes is patently unethical. Stealing data like this should really be seen as the digital version of trespassing or larceny. Unfortunately, the law is slow to change and this isn't a crime. "Legal" does not imply "moral" or "acceptable to society", and extrapolating your own opinions to other people is the "projection" fallacy.
martinald 10y ago
Compared to web apps which have this * 1000000? Have you seen how many xhr tracking calls a SaaS product does to often dozens of different services?
- _Understated_ 10y ago
  I use NoScript and UBlock so I see that $hit all the time unfortunately but I have come to expect that with cloud-related stuff but we are talking about a stand alone product here... not some cloud-based scheduling app. It should be my call whether I want to "improve" their product.
  - martinald 10y ago
    Block it on your firewall then? What's the difference?
    - _Understated_ 10y ago
      Really? Is this what you have to do nowadays in order to just use your computer? You sound like this is acceptable to you but what about my parents and neighbours and so on... should I tweak their firewalls? What is M$ changes the URLS/IPs! I am not in a position to boycott them and I don't know what the answer is except to not use Windows 10 but I know I can't use Windows 8.1 forever.
      - Frank2312 10y ago
        You don't have to disable it to use your computer. You have to disable it if you don't want to be tracked.
- pdkl95 10y ago
  It's malware compared to actual software applications. "Web apps" are, by definition, spyware. > SaaS Service As A Software Substitute[1] has always been about lock-in. It shouldn't be a surprise when developers that use an unethical, user-hostile business model also write spyware. [1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...

Frank2312 10y ago

>And why can it not just be opt-in? Right now, it is opt-out. The reason it can't be opt-in is that basic users will never enable it. They want data on how the majority of the users (mentionned above) are using their OS to improve it for their use case. I'm not saying I agree with it (I disabled every telemtry option there is), but I see their point.

EasyTiger_ 10y ago
Previous versions of Windows didn't require all this 'telemetry' and those operating systems did just fine without it. Why now all of a sudden it's this important? Pretty suspicious imo.
- adiabatty 10y ago
  It's nice to know what's popular and what's largely unused; this helps Microsoft figure out where to allocate scarce engineer time for feature development and maintenance. You'd generally want them to fix the most common crashes and UI weirdnesses before fixing the uncommon ones, right?
  - pdkl95 10y ago
    Sure it's nice. Sending data to Microsoft is fine if and only if someone gives their informed consent to give that information (which includes a manifest of the exact information that will be logged and transmitted). Microsoft isn't entitled to this information. Asking is fine, but tricking people with opt-out settings - which they know most people won't notice or understand - or simply exfiltrating data unasked or against the user's wishes is patently unethical. Stealing data like this should really be seen as the digital version of trespassing or larceny. Unfortunately, the law is slow to change and this isn't a crime. "Legal" does not imply "moral" or "acceptable to society", and extrapolating your own opinions to other people is the "projection" fallacy.

martinald 10y ago

Compared to web apps which have this * 1000000? Have you seen how many xhr tracking calls a SaaS product does to often dozens of different services?

_Understated_ 10y ago
I use NoScript and UBlock so I see that $hit all the time unfortunately but I have come to expect that with cloud-related stuff but we are talking about a stand alone product here... not some cloud-based scheduling app. It should be my call whether I want to "improve" their product.
- martinald 10y ago
  Block it on your firewall then? What's the difference?
  - _Understated_ 10y ago
    Really? Is this what you have to do nowadays in order to just use your computer? You sound like this is acceptable to you but what about my parents and neighbours and so on... should I tweak their firewalls? What is M$ changes the URLS/IPs! I am not in a position to boycott them and I don't know what the answer is except to not use Windows 10 but I know I can't use Windows 8.1 forever.
    - Frank2312 10y ago
      You don't have to disable it to use your computer. You have to disable it if you don't want to be tracked.
pdkl95 10y ago
It's malware compared to actual software applications. "Web apps" are, by definition, spyware. > SaaS Service As A Software Substitute[1] has always been about lock-in. It shouldn't be a surprise when developers that use an unethical, user-hostile business model also write spyware. [1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...