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We may soon have the technology to alter the DNA of embryos. I wonder if parent commenter would argue that blacks should choose to have white-colored children.

We may soon have the technology to alter the DNA of embryos. I wonder if parent commenter would argue that blacks should choose to have white-colored children. The same argument works. It objectively gives them a better chance in life, and not doing it hurts their chances. But is there anyone that isn't made extremely uncomfortable by that possibility? Yet the logic is exactly the same. How is changing your skin color to fit in, any different than changing your language? I think there is a cruel logic to parent commenters point. He's absolutely correct, teaching the kids to "speak white" would probably make them better off. At least in terms of statistical outcomes. But the suggestion just seems so wrong and offensive. In the same way as telling them to just change their skin color and "stop being black", were possible to do so.

aaron695 10y ago
People are already changing their skin color intentionally. They have for 1000's of years but it is getting more techy. They shouldn't be doing it cause it makes the racial majority feel bad? Some pretty twisted logic if you sit down and think about it.
pluma 10y ago
I'm writing this comment in English. My native language is different and the vast majority of spoken interactions in my private life isn't in English. English isn't even an official language in my country. Your argument is crass, but I think you're being needlessly romantic. Unlike skin colour, you can "wear" more than one language and switch between them as appropriate. In fact, if you spend any time studying linguistics you will quickly learn that even "monolingual" speakers speak different languages depending on the context. We classify these as different registers or sociolects but ultimately the effect is the same: The language we speak heavily depends on who we are speaking to, not only on who we are. Whether we can preserve languages that are effectively running out of contexts to be useful in is another question. But that is basically an argument about controlling natural evolution. And that's actually a solved problem: just look at how we preserve other cultural artefacts like art and crafts. Also, just because a culture is disappearing doesn't mean no new cultures will be created. I'm sure the Romans never worried about their language going away yet the modern "lingua franca" is ultimately a descendent of a bunch of regional varieties of a language closely related to Old Norse. A thousand years from now the worry about the future of AAVE will seem as quaint as the worry about the future of Kentish Old English would seem now (if anyone worried at the time at all). Heck, the situation of AAVE is actually infinitely better than that of Kentish Old English: there is a wealth of contemporary study into AAVE and thanks to modern technology it is trivial to archive speech samples, even including the spoken word and interviews with native speakers. If you ignore the politicisation of this issue (because all "race" issues are political in the US, even when they're supposedly about language) the decline of AAVE is no more tragic than the decline of any other regional or social language. Preserving languages is a solved problem. There is no reason to worry about AAVE beyond ensuring its preservation except for race politics.
- pluma 10y ago
  In case something weird happens again, this was in reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12030792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12030792
- tptacek 10y ago
  No part of this article concerns itself with preservation of AAVE.
  - pluma 10y ago
    Sure, but the comment I was responding to seemed to worry about conserving AAVE because it equated displacing AAVE with genetically eradicating black skin color. People change their language all the time (which is why the skin color comparison is nonsense to begin with). Ultimately that means some languages are going to be discontinued. Preservation helps preventing these languages (as cultural heritage) from being forgotten. Saying AAVE speakers shouldn't learn and speak GA is more akin to saying redheads shouldn't should only procreate with other redheads because otherwise redhead culture might go "extinct" (or rather: only survive in the form of occasional mutations).
    - tptacek 10y ago
      I'm sorry, but it's like you read my comment and then substituted some other comment in your head to respond to. Once again: no part of this essay is about whether AAVE will be "discontinued". Anyone suggesting that as a live debate on this thread should probably read it more carefully.
      - pluma 10y ago
        Again: I'm not arguing with you or the article. I'm was responding to the comment I originally responded to[0] and I just expanded on my counter-point. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12030792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12030792

aaron695 10y ago

People are already changing their skin color intentionally. They have for 1000's of years but it is getting more techy. They shouldn't be doing it cause it makes the racial majority feel bad? Some pretty twisted logic if you sit down and think about it.

pluma 10y ago

I'm writing this comment in English. My native language is different and the vast majority of spoken interactions in my private life isn't in English. English isn't even an official language in my country. Your argument is crass, but I think you're being needlessly romantic. Unlike skin colour, you can "wear" more than one language and switch between them as appropriate. In fact, if you spend any time studying linguistics you will quickly learn that even "monolingual" speakers speak different languages depending on the context. We classify these as different registers or sociolects but ultimately the effect is the same: The language we speak heavily depends on who we are speaking to, not only on who we are. Whether we can preserve languages that are effectively running out of contexts to be useful in is another question. But that is basically an argument about controlling natural evolution. And that's actually a solved problem: just look at how we preserve other cultural artefacts like art and crafts. Also, just because a culture is disappearing doesn't mean no new cultures will be created. I'm sure the Romans never worried about their language going away yet the modern "lingua franca" is ultimately a descendent of a bunch of regional varieties of a language closely related to Old Norse. A thousand years from now the worry about the future of AAVE will seem as quaint as the worry about the future of Kentish Old English would seem now (if anyone worried at the time at all). Heck, the situation of AAVE is actually infinitely better than that of Kentish Old English: there is a wealth of contemporary study into AAVE and thanks to modern technology it is trivial to archive speech samples, even including the spoken word and interviews with native speakers. If you ignore the politicisation of this issue (because all "race" issues are political in the US, even when they're supposedly about language) the decline of AAVE is no more tragic than the decline of any other regional or social language. Preserving languages is a solved problem. There is no reason to worry about AAVE beyond ensuring its preservation except for race politics.

pluma 10y ago
In case something weird happens again, this was in reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12030792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12030792
tptacek 10y ago
No part of this article concerns itself with preservation of AAVE.
- pluma 10y ago
  Sure, but the comment I was responding to seemed to worry about conserving AAVE because it equated displacing AAVE with genetically eradicating black skin color. People change their language all the time (which is why the skin color comparison is nonsense to begin with). Ultimately that means some languages are going to be discontinued. Preservation helps preventing these languages (as cultural heritage) from being forgotten. Saying AAVE speakers shouldn't learn and speak GA is more akin to saying redheads shouldn't should only procreate with other redheads because otherwise redhead culture might go "extinct" (or rather: only survive in the form of occasional mutations).
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I'm sorry, but it's like you read my comment and then substituted some other comment in your head to respond to. Once again: no part of this essay is about whether AAVE will be "discontinued". Anyone suggesting that as a live debate on this thread should probably read it more carefully.
    - pluma 10y ago
      Again: I'm not arguing with you or the article. I'm was responding to the comment I originally responded to[0] and I just expanded on my counter-point. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12030792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12030792