6 ms·

Indeed. Your salary is relative. If you're earning 3-4x more but have to pay 3-4x more on all your expenses, are you really richer? Factor in long hours in gene

by Grahf 10y ago

Indeed. Your salary is relative. If you're earning 3-4x more but have to pay 3-4x more on all your expenses, are you really richer? Factor in long hours in general, unpaid overtime, crunch times, a poor work/life ratio in general, etc. It seems like the scales are balanced all wrong. That's my perception as another tech worker living in the UK. I'd love to hear an argument as to why that isn't the case.

majewsky 10y ago
That's also the reason why I love being on part-time. I only get 70% salary, but I get 12 hours more time each week for my own projects, or just for hanging out in the city before sundown.
- ChilledHands 10y ago
  Have you aways worked part time as a developer? I didn't think it was a common thing but sounds lovely. Can you talk about it some more?
  - eropple 10y ago
    Can't speak to him, but I fluctuate between 24 and 30 hours a week of consulting. I make about as much money as I did as a FT engineer (depending on the project, charging anywhere from $110/hr to $200/hr); dealing with taxes myself is a minor pain in the ass but having a ton of extra time every week is really nice. I did have to bust my ass a bit to get to the point where I had the skillset and the knowledge necessary to do it, but I'm glad I did. That I am at this point is probably some of why I feel freer to criticize the tech industry--I've been on the bottom and I've since largely stepped out, and it's ugly looking in on it.
  - majewsky 10y ago
    I started out full-time, but quickly switched to part-time to do a CS bachelor in parallel (I had a master in physics when I pivoted into IT). Right now, I only have the part-time experience outside of lecture seasons, but I like it very much. I don't have family, so I mainly use the extra time on personal projects or time with friends.
jsmith0295 10y ago
Assuming you had money left over to save, yes, you would be. You would be banking 3-4x as much money, if income and expenses remained proportional
- nilkn 10y ago
  To clarify this post (which I agree with): Imagine you're making $100 per month right now and spending $95 of it. So you're saving $5 per month. You move to the US and start making $400 per month, but your expenses skyrocket to $380 per month. But you're now saving $20 per month -- four times as much as you were before. Now imagine those savings numbers were $1k and $4k, and the difference becomes a pretty big deal.
  - gambiting 10y ago
    Personally - right now I know that no matter what happens, my employer has to give me at least 3 months notice to fire me - at will employment is something that sounds almost like a bad joke around here. There does not exist any medical emergency, illness or accident, that would put me in any sort of financial difficulty. Even if 20 helicopters were engaged in transporting me to the hospital or if I had to be put on treatment costing 100k/month, I would never pay anything for it, and my NI contribution would not go up. If I lost my job as a result of an accident I would still be 100% covered. My children will never have to worry about student debt, because they either won't have any, or it will be conditional on them working, capped at a certain level and reasonable. At the same time, I make enough to pay mortgage on a 4-bedroom house, have a car that I really like, and have the latest gadgets I like. Sure, I can't afford a rolex or a ferrari - but that's fine with me. Saving more money while working in the US and worrying about the above is just absolutely not worth it to me, but again, that's just my personal opinion.
    - nilkn 10y ago
      I didn't mean to suggest you should actually move to the US. Life in the US definitely feels pretty backwards compared to some European countries these days, and your examples show that pretty convincingly. I only meant that, despite just being basic arithmetic, it's somewhat paradoxical that savings rates can go up in extremely high cost-of-living areas. It "feels" like you've gained nothing if your income increases by 4x but your cost of living does as well, but in reality you might actually save considerably more money.
crucifiction 10y ago
Except the only expense likely to be 3-4x more is rent/mortgage. Everything else in the US is going to be the same or cheaper (car, food, gadgets, etc).
- GFischer 10y ago
  Healthcare is the deal-breaker for many, and it's usually WAY more than 3-4x.
  - crucifiction 10y ago
    It can be. I pay about $400/month for family covergage, this is unusually high for a tech job (many of which have little or no monthly from the employee). So still only $4800 of what might be many tens of thousands of dollars extra. Even $2000/month extra rent is still only $24000 a year, usually a fraction of the higher pay.

by Grahf 10y ago

majewsky 10y ago

That's also the reason why I love being on part-time. I only get 70% salary, but I get 12 hours more time each week for my own projects, or just for hanging out in the city before sundown.

ChilledHands 10y ago
Have you aways worked part time as a developer? I didn't think it was a common thing but sounds lovely. Can you talk about it some more?
- eropple 10y ago
  Can't speak to him, but I fluctuate between 24 and 30 hours a week of consulting. I make about as much money as I did as a FT engineer (depending on the project, charging anywhere from $110/hr to $200/hr); dealing with taxes myself is a minor pain in the ass but having a ton of extra time every week is really nice. I did have to bust my ass a bit to get to the point where I had the skillset and the knowledge necessary to do it, but I'm glad I did. That I am at this point is probably some of why I feel freer to criticize the tech industry--I've been on the bottom and I've since largely stepped out, and it's ugly looking in on it.
- majewsky 10y ago
  I started out full-time, but quickly switched to part-time to do a CS bachelor in parallel (I had a master in physics when I pivoted into IT). Right now, I only have the part-time experience outside of lecture seasons, but I like it very much. I don't have family, so I mainly use the extra time on personal projects or time with friends.

jsmith0295 10y ago

Assuming you had money left over to save, yes, you would be. You would be banking 3-4x as much money, if income and expenses remained proportional

nilkn 10y ago
To clarify this post (which I agree with): Imagine you're making $100 per month right now and spending $95 of it. So you're saving $5 per month. You move to the US and start making $400 per month, but your expenses skyrocket to $380 per month. But you're now saving $20 per month -- four times as much as you were before. Now imagine those savings numbers were $1k and $4k, and the difference becomes a pretty big deal.
- gambiting 10y ago
  Personally - right now I know that no matter what happens, my employer has to give me at least 3 months notice to fire me - at will employment is something that sounds almost like a bad joke around here. There does not exist any medical emergency, illness or accident, that would put me in any sort of financial difficulty. Even if 20 helicopters were engaged in transporting me to the hospital or if I had to be put on treatment costing 100k/month, I would never pay anything for it, and my NI contribution would not go up. If I lost my job as a result of an accident I would still be 100% covered. My children will never have to worry about student debt, because they either won't have any, or it will be conditional on them working, capped at a certain level and reasonable. At the same time, I make enough to pay mortgage on a 4-bedroom house, have a car that I really like, and have the latest gadgets I like. Sure, I can't afford a rolex or a ferrari - but that's fine with me. Saving more money while working in the US and worrying about the above is just absolutely not worth it to me, but again, that's just my personal opinion.
  - nilkn 10y ago
    I didn't mean to suggest you should actually move to the US. Life in the US definitely feels pretty backwards compared to some European countries these days, and your examples show that pretty convincingly. I only meant that, despite just being basic arithmetic, it's somewhat paradoxical that savings rates can go up in extremely high cost-of-living areas. It "feels" like you've gained nothing if your income increases by 4x but your cost of living does as well, but in reality you might actually save considerably more money.

crucifiction 10y ago

Except the only expense likely to be 3-4x more is rent/mortgage. Everything else in the US is going to be the same or cheaper (car, food, gadgets, etc).

GFischer 10y ago
Healthcare is the deal-breaker for many, and it's usually WAY more than 3-4x.
- crucifiction 10y ago
  It can be. I pay about $400/month for family covergage, this is unusually high for a tech job (many of which have little or no monthly from the employee). So still only $4800 of what might be many tens of thousands of dollars extra. Even $2000/month extra rent is still only $24000 a year, usually a fraction of the higher pay.