4 ms·

Microsoft seems to have used a phased-in strategy: first it was all optional, then it should be there by default but ALSO with a mandatory option to disable to

Microsoft seems to have used a phased-in strategy: first it was all optional, then it should be there by default but ALSO with a mandatory option to disable to get the Windows logo (and probably goes with big OEM deals) then IIRC with Windows 10 MS dropped the mandatory removable part (but it is still ok to have it) on x86, and on non-x86 this is probably already mandatory to NOT be able to remove it. I guess in a few years they will render it mandatory to NOT be able to remove it also on x86, for new computers to be eligible to Windows compat logo/OEM deals. Given implementations are huge and full of bugs, the stated intent is also complete bullshit: it is actually far more dangerous to have a platform with that kind of "security" measures, because once a hole is found malware can hide in there more efficiently and be extremely difficult to remove.

iancarroll 10y ago
How does Secure Boot enable malware to "hide in there more efficiently"? With or without Secure Boot, a compromised bootloader is in a privileged position, but not any more so with Secure Boot, from what I can tell.
- xorblurb 10y ago
  Because there is in general nothing to authenticate the hardware owner in contrast with the usual OS users/admins - that the model consider corrupted, and because it is designed to msot of the time prevent modification by even admins (allowing only modifications signed by the hardware manufacturer), if a security hole is discovered and exploited it is not very easy to revert the system in a good state; it can even become completely impossible if the malware patches the security hole after having exploited it. So it can then sit there, unremovable, and with ultra-privileges. The situation is similar to infected android: because of the security model it is not supposed to happen (most of the time, there are often "bugs" even in the informal model), but because software are full of security holes once one is exploited it is less easy to remove the infection than it can be on a PC. This is for this reason that the security community consider the Intel Management Engine a huge security risk, and the situation is only marginally better with x86 firmware using such "security" features.

iancarroll 10y ago

How does Secure Boot enable malware to "hide in there more efficiently"? With or without Secure Boot, a compromised bootloader is in a privileged position, but not any more so with Secure Boot, from what I can tell.

xorblurb 10y ago
Because there is in general nothing to authenticate the hardware owner in contrast with the usual OS users/admins - that the model consider corrupted, and because it is designed to msot of the time prevent modification by even admins (allowing only modifications signed by the hardware manufacturer), if a security hole is discovered and exploited it is not very easy to revert the system in a good state; it can even become completely impossible if the malware patches the security hole after having exploited it. So it can then sit there, unremovable, and with ultra-privileges. The situation is similar to infected android: because of the security model it is not supposed to happen (most of the time, there are often "bugs" even in the informal model), but because software are full of security holes once one is exploited it is less easy to remove the infection than it can be on a PC. This is for this reason that the security community consider the Intel Management Engine a huge security risk, and the situation is only marginally better with x86 firmware using such "security" features.