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Is Tesla's autopilot using radar? How is radar fooled by a white truck against a bright background? I was surprised by this point of failure, which suggests t

by te 10y ago

Is Tesla's autopilot using radar? How is radar fooled by a white truck against a bright background? I was surprised by this point of failure, which suggests to me that they aren't even using radar.

agildehaus 10y ago
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/748625979271045121 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/748625979271045121
- protomyth 10y ago
  Maybe I'm a little clueless on how radar works, but how would something that is lower than a car's height be mistaken for something as distant as a overhead sign?
  - agildehaus 10y ago
    I would assume the forward radar isn't capable of seeing anything past a foot or two off the ground. I suppose I don't really know, but that was Elon's answer to "why didn't the radar see it?"
    - protomyth 10y ago
      tweet: "Radar tunes out what looks like an overhead road sign to avoid false braking events" That's what puzzles me. I don't get how overhead road signs can be a problem, and it couldn't detect something at car height. Its just really odd.
joshdickson 10y ago
As of July 2016, the autonomous driving system in the Model S (& X, presumably) is not using radar, only cameras. The vehicles do have radar which is used for other things (various crash avoidance programs), but not this, and these things presumably did not fire correctly. I do not know if Tesla's software update capabilities would allow it to push a future autonomous driving update in the future that could interface with the radar sensors; I'd assume so. When I was working on these things the software build that went to the factory was what was on the car for 15 years, obviously this way is superior. As a side note, radar in cars and semi trucks are a difficult match. The height of tractor trailer trucks makes it difficult to figure out if they are actually obstacles or if you're really seeing a bridge or something. Normally there's enough hanging down in back that it's not an issue, but in this case the truck was perpendicular to the car. It would not surprise me if the radar went right underneath the truck and either didn't see it, or saw it but thought it was something like a bridge that the car could go under. These are difficult and complex systems to engineer.
- ccozan 10y ago
  :o) Tesla is not using radars?! I am driving an '14 Audi A6 and I can tell you, the radars + software on it are the most advanced I ever saw. They even catch a small cat when was trying to cross the street. The car actioned a emergency break before I even realized. The only time when this wasn't working, was during a snow blizzard, when the radar sensors got iced and they couldn't see anything. Otherwise, they are pretty wide range, at least 100m. It also keeps the car in between the lanes - this is done with a camera, but if you take your hands of the wheel, you get a max of about 30 seconds of free driving to maybe open a bottle of water, before it get's really loud.
  - joshdickson 10y ago
    > :o) Tesla is not using radars?! I am driving an '14 Audi A6 and I can tell you, the radars + software on it are the most advanced I ever saw. TIL everyone on Hacker News drives a much nicer car than I do. The crash avoidance measures run in tandem with the autonomous driving features, but the system (which is mainly licensed technology from Mobileye) just doesn't get any depth intelligence from it. Presumably if autonomous driving pointed you into a brick wall, the radar stuff would still trigger the AEB features (autonomous braking).
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- rasz_pl 10y ago
  > autonomous driving system in the Model S no such thing exist ...
skykooler 10y ago
It uses radar, but combines that with the cameras to discard "obstacles" that the cameras tell it to, like road signs (big flat surfaces are very reflective to radar). The cameras did not see the truck and so told the radars to ignore it.

by te 10y ago

Is Tesla's autopilot using radar? How is radar fooled by a white truck against a bright background? I was surprised by this point of failure, which suggests to me that they aren't even using radar.

agildehaus 10y ago

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/748625979271045121 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/748625979271045121

protomyth 10y ago
Maybe I'm a little clueless on how radar works, but how would something that is lower than a car's height be mistaken for something as distant as a overhead sign?
- agildehaus 10y ago
  I would assume the forward radar isn't capable of seeing anything past a foot or two off the ground. I suppose I don't really know, but that was Elon's answer to "why didn't the radar see it?"
  - protomyth 10y ago
    tweet: "Radar tunes out what looks like an overhead road sign to avoid false braking events" That's what puzzles me. I don't get how overhead road signs can be a problem, and it couldn't detect something at car height. Its just really odd.

joshdickson 10y ago

As of July 2016, the autonomous driving system in the Model S (& X, presumably) is not using radar, only cameras. The vehicles do have radar which is used for other things (various crash avoidance programs), but not this, and these things presumably did not fire correctly. I do not know if Tesla's software update capabilities would allow it to push a future autonomous driving update in the future that could interface with the radar sensors; I'd assume so. When I was working on these things the software build that went to the factory was what was on the car for 15 years, obviously this way is superior. As a side note, radar in cars and semi trucks are a difficult match. The height of tractor trailer trucks makes it difficult to figure out if they are actually obstacles or if you're really seeing a bridge or something. Normally there's enough hanging down in back that it's not an issue, but in this case the truck was perpendicular to the car. It would not surprise me if the radar went right underneath the truck and either didn't see it, or saw it but thought it was something like a bridge that the car could go under. These are difficult and complex systems to engineer.

ccozan 10y ago
:o) Tesla is not using radars?! I am driving an '14 Audi A6 and I can tell you, the radars + software on it are the most advanced I ever saw. They even catch a small cat when was trying to cross the street. The car actioned a emergency break before I even realized. The only time when this wasn't working, was during a snow blizzard, when the radar sensors got iced and they couldn't see anything. Otherwise, they are pretty wide range, at least 100m. It also keeps the car in between the lanes - this is done with a camera, but if you take your hands of the wheel, you get a max of about 30 seconds of free driving to maybe open a bottle of water, before it get's really loud.
- joshdickson 10y ago
  > :o) Tesla is not using radars?! I am driving an '14 Audi A6 and I can tell you, the radars + software on it are the most advanced I ever saw. TIL everyone on Hacker News drives a much nicer car than I do. The crash avoidance measures run in tandem with the autonomous driving features, but the system (which is mainly licensed technology from Mobileye) just doesn't get any depth intelligence from it. Presumably if autonomous driving pointed you into a brick wall, the radar stuff would still trigger the AEB features (autonomous braking).
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
rasz_pl 10y ago
> autonomous driving system in the Model S no such thing exist ...

skykooler 10y ago

It uses radar, but combines that with the cameras to discard "obstacles" that the cameras tell it to, like road signs (big flat surfaces are very reflective to radar). The cameras did not see the truck and so told the radars to ignore it.