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> You can go ahead and spout off arguments about us being biological primal carnivores but that isn't very persuasive considering that the defining aspect of in

> You can go ahead and spout off arguments about us being biological primal carnivores but that isn't very persuasive considering that the defining aspect of intellect has always been a higher sense of understanding of good and evil, OK. Sounds great. Tell me more about this 'higher understanding of good and evil.' What is good? What is evil? Why? Where do they come from? We don't have any 'higher understanding of good and evil', we simply have language and (most likely) a higher capacity for abstract thought which allow us to argue about our social instincts, which are not objective truths. There's a reason why, for all of human history, 'morality' has differed wildly among cultures. The only real constant is some level of in-group altruism, because that is a biological necessity for social animals. The rest is all gravy. Some humans thought human sacrifice was good, and a moral obligation. Others, torture. Others, slavery. Others, rape. Others, pacifism. There is no rationale, there is no higher truth, there is no higher power, that you could appeal to to convince the most enlightened and rational Aztec that human sacrifice was evil. That's because it doesn't exist. That's why your whole moral argument is entirely unpersuasive to people who eat meat. You're like an Aztec come to tell us that we need to be committing human sacrifice; it's all nonsense without the cultural context and socialization and inoculation. You, based on a moral belief you did not come to through reason, are trying to convince people secure in their own moral beliefs that they are commiting evil. A simple check-in with their conscience confirms that you are wrong. So you need something other than a moral argument.

goldenkey 10y ago
No argument is going to work on someone who thinks its okay to torture animals for human enjoyment. Just like no description of smell is going to enlighten someone who lacks a nose. The only thing that might change your mind is watching videos of the conditions that these animals are in, solely for hedonistic pleasure, extra information/nueron firing in the form of taste. Imagine yourself in their body -- a punishment from birth to death because of bad luck on the end of some humans' excessive want for neuropathic pleasure. Any way you shape it, excess is always going to be morally dubious. When one has no choice, some things like self defense make sense. But there are plenty of choices in our modern age. A vegetarian diet with good farm fresh eggs, cheese, and milk, is plenty enjoyable and easy to do healthy. And a grass-fed free-range steak is not the worst thing to have once in a while. It can be argued that death is not a terrible thing, since we all experience it. Rather, torture is. So eating sustainable and cruelty-free meat, is sound. You seem to be bent on excusing torture and pain because no bullet-proof definition or argument can sway you. I don't know what to say, except that you are clearly in denial and lying to us and yourself.

goldenkey 10y ago

No argument is going to work on someone who thinks its okay to torture animals for human enjoyment. Just like no description of smell is going to enlighten someone who lacks a nose. The only thing that might change your mind is watching videos of the conditions that these animals are in, solely for hedonistic pleasure, extra information/nueron firing in the form of taste. Imagine yourself in their body -- a punishment from birth to death because of bad luck on the end of some humans' excessive want for neuropathic pleasure. Any way you shape it, excess is always going to be morally dubious. When one has no choice, some things like self defense make sense. But there are plenty of choices in our modern age. A vegetarian diet with good farm fresh eggs, cheese, and milk, is plenty enjoyable and easy to do healthy. And a grass-fed free-range steak is not the worst thing to have once in a while. It can be argued that death is not a terrible thing, since we all experience it. Rather, torture is. So eating sustainable and cruelty-free meat, is sound. You seem to be bent on excusing torture and pain because no bullet-proof definition or argument can sway you. I don't know what to say, except that you are clearly in denial and lying to us and yourself.