10 ms·

New Zealand town with too many jobs offering packages of land and homes for $165k

50 points by guessmyname 10y ago

tomelders 10y ago
I spent 6 months in NZ back in 2000 and the thought of moving there has always been present in my mind. Now that the UK has voted to leave the EU, that pretty much makes my mind up for me - I'll be leaving the UK, and NZ is a serious option. Are there any kiwis in here who can offer some advice for devs considering moving there? Locations to consider? What to expect in terms of wages, cost of living? What is the dev labour market like (e.g. full time gigs or contracts)? In my case, I'm a web dev with Advertising/Marketing, Fashion and financial services experience - I've been developing web apps recently in React. I also dabble in Swift for fun.
- adrianmacneil 10y ago
  If you want full time web dev work, Auckland and Wellington are really your main options. Cost of living in NZ is high (relative to salaries), but for most people the pace and quality of life make up for it. Given that NZ timezone is only 3-5 hrs difference from the west coast of the US, I personally would look for remote work for a US company while living in NZ (salaries and the exchange rate would be strongly in your favor). However, if you need a visa sponsorship this wouldn't be feasible.
  - bonzini 10y ago
    While it's only 3-5 hours difference, you'll effectively be working Sunday-Thursday. It's pretty weird.
    - spacehunt 10y ago
      Wouldn't it be more like Tuesday-Saturday?
      - adrianmacneil 10y ago
        Yes
      - repsilat 10y ago
        It depends what you mean. If you work NZ's Mon-Fri, that'll be Sun-Thu in the US. If you work the US's Mon-Fri, that'll be Tue-Sat in NZ.
- Bromskloss 10y ago
  Maybe you already knew this, but New Zealand isn't in the EU either.
  - gravypod 10y ago
    I was confused by this as well.
  - jtmcmc 10y ago
    I think the point is that they see this as a poor decision on the UK's part, enough so that they wish to emigrate.
  - tomelders 10y ago
    Sorry, I meant (Old) Zealand. Not really. I'm genuinely concerned about the rise of the right in Europe as a whole and I see the UK referendum result as a great big red flag.
- contingencies 10y ago
  Kiwi by one of three citizenships here (+AU/DE). AFAIK NZ has the worst rating on the housing affordability index in the western world. We went over and had a look at real estate a couple of years back, but were happy to stay here in China. I would personally consider it only if you want to work remotely, own your own business already, are looking for a good educational environment for children, or love weird great-in-Kiwiland stuff like wild pig shooting, buried BBQs, boats, gardening, learning to fly or building houses in remote, windswept natural locations or something.
  - disordinary 10y ago
    That is a huge generalisation, and in fact this article is about affordable housing which therefore contradicts your point. Auckland is not affordable, but Wellington has higher wages and relatively affordable housing. It's still probably high by international standards (but not by the companies that we get directly compared to, namely Australia, Canada, and the UK).
    - contingencies 10y ago
      There are certainly cheaper areas, but what they gain in affordability they tend to lack in jobs, internationalism, vibrancy, services or climate.
  - Mandatum 10y ago
    > love weird great-in-Kiwiland stuff like wild pig shooting, buried BBQs, boats, gardening, learning to fly or building houses in remote, windswept natural locations or something. Your idea of "popular" Kiwi past-times is kind of hilarious. I'd say a significant portion of the population has never been any kind of hunting or had a hangi in the past decade. I'd say we're very similar to Vancouver. Nature, sports, bars, mainstream media.
    - contingencies 10y ago
      I never said popular.
- te_chris 10y ago
  There's certainly work in NZ, but you'll have to live in Auckland, Wellington, Christhurch or Dunedin. Auckland is too expensive to really be worth it, even on high dev salaries.
- dzhiurgis 10y ago
  Wellington is very windy and thus cold, but it has nice bar culture, is small and very lovely overall. Auckland is much larger and warmer. Number of beaches around so the culture is more around surfing. Also quite a few nice hiking areas ~1hr drive away. I only been in Melbourne and SF for a few days, but Auckland definitely beats them in quality of life. Xero is always seem to be hiring something. There is also a strong albeit small group of functional programmers (find via meetup.com).
  - disordinary 10y ago
    That isn't particularly flattering to Wellington. Wellington isn't as windy as our reputation states. There is generally a breeze and one or two big wind events every year. But like much of North America and Europe getting snow, and much of Asia getting the monsoon, Wellington is built to handle it. Buildings are designed to provide wind breaks and even get tested in wind tunnels to make sure that they don't act as a funnel. Generally the weather is pleasant, in Summer it doesn't get above 25 too often, and in winter it's seldom below 10 in the days and 6 at night. We get a frost only a couple of times a year. Wellington has a large inner city mountain bike park, one of the largest inland ecological islands within the city boundaries, and a much more convenient access to nature and the outdoors than probably any other city in the world.
- glippiglop 10y ago
  2000 was 16 years ago, so it's important to understand that NZ is no longer the same country that you knew. I left in 2005 for the UK and can't imagine returning to NZ to live (last time I visited was 2010). Here's just a few reasons: * I've been spoiled by UK broadband speeds and NZ just doesn't compare. * Food is more expensive, and not of the quality that I'm now used to (fresh seafood would be the exception). * Higher tax relative to what I pay in the UK as a contractor. * Real estate prices are now worse than in the UK * It's an isolated country, you can't just hop on a cheap plane and find yourself in a completely different country & culture an hour or two later. * Purchasing power is greatly limited. In the UK I can buy virtually any obscure item that I want online and get a good price, including P+P. Not so in NZ. * There's very little variety in the job market for software developers, few 'cool' or cutting edge companies and no startup scene worth speaking of. * Finally, cultural experiences are extremely limited. I know I'd miss all the museums, art exhibitions, theatre, concerts, comedians, ballet, opera and so forth. One of the biggest reasons that I left was because of boredom and the UK/EU certainly alleviated that. Source: 27 years of living in NZ.
  - disordinary 10y ago
    You realise that the government has been laying fibre to the door for 90% of the population. Or to put off another way 90% of the population will have direct fibre connection by 2018, and most in cities have it already. And while it can't compare to Europe access to countries like Australia, the Pacific islands, and south Asia is quick and convenient. The startup scene in Wellington has exploded, the government funds incubators and lots of companies are fueling each other. Check out the likes of atomic or 8i
  - mattmanser 10y ago
    They've changed contractor tax in the UK, this year you'll be paying 10% more than you were (less £500, you're only allowed £5k dividend tax free now).
- robocat 10y ago
  House prices in NZ are insane compared with salaries. but if you have your own home in UK, you will get a better property over here for the same money. I would recommend Wellington: * most importantly far easier to find friends (whether you have a family, or don't). * plenty of jobs (startup jobs or government jobs or corporate jobs) * great culture * far less commuting (Auckland stinks)
- Mandatum 10y ago
  Wellington has a good dev and startup culture (that is, for New Zealand). Housing prices are a lot lower too, expect a massive wage cut though unless you're doing remote work for SF-type companies.
  - disordinary 10y ago
    Wages are comparable to most western countries, just not SF. Also when you work remotely the remote companies often pay local wages and not SF ones.
- Mandatum 10y ago
  Wellington has a good dev and startup culture (that is, for New Zealand). Housing prices are a lot lower too, expect a massive wage cut though unless you're doing remote work for SF-type companies.
phantom_oracle 10y ago
There's always a catch, which I wish these articles specified. Like that story about buying an entire town in a radio-silent zone somewhere in the USA. The land was cheap, but the catch was that maintaining it cost north of a million dollars or so.
- Johnny555 10y ago
  There's no catch - if you're willing to move to a rural area where agriculture is the primary business, you can get a home for $165K. But you don't need to immigrate to New Zealand for this - you can find the same deal in the USA.
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    Do you have to work agri culture? I live in a remote-ish place in the mountains where agri culture is the primary business and houses and land can be had for far less than 165k. However I make software from there. Could not be happier. Could someone do that there or is that somehow not allowed? Meaning if there are really no strings I can see me live there easily.
    - Johnny555 10y ago
      I don't think there are any restrictions since as far as I know, the town's website just links to local realtors, anyone that is qualified to buy property there can buy property, no need to sign up for a job in the town. It looks fairly easy to get a NZ work visa if you're in a high-demand occupation, but I don't know what the Visa requirements are for a remote worker, so you'd need to investigate that. But there are thousands of small towns just like it across the world, so it's not clear why you'd pick this particular one based only on this plea from the town for more local workers. If cost of living is important to you and you're ok in a country where English is not the native language, you can certainly find areas with much lower cost of living (while still having good internet access)
- stevoski 10y ago
  A catch (in my opinion as a New Zealander originally from Christchurch) is that Kaitangata is remote with nasty weather.
Johnny555 10y ago
I think the reason this story became so popular is because it was initially wrongly reported that the town was giving away these $165K land+home packages for anyone that is willing to move there. But in reality, they aren't offering anything for free, they were trying to reach out to NZ citizens that wanted to escape the high cost of living in cities. There are lots of places in rural (and not so rural) America where you can get a house+land for $165K. Here's an article that mentions the earlier misleading headlines: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/02/new-zealand-town-we-have-lots-of-jobs-and-housing-but-we-wont-pay-to-move.html http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/02/new-zealand-town-we-have-lots... "There is currently a story that has been published by overseas media that we are paying people $160,000 to move to Kaitangata and people should ring the Mayor about it. This is NOT TRUE," a statement on the town's website read.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  In rural Canada you can get houses + a huge amount of land (100 acre lots) for < $100K.
  - Glyptodon 10y ago
    But do they have the jobs to go with like this place supposedly does?
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      Well, this place has only a pretty select range of jobs by the looks of it, local industry is quite limited. By the same token you can be a logger in large parts of Canada. I think the best way to interpret the article is to realize that there are many places where people no longer wish to live after several generations and the cities lure with their - presumably - higher incomes and easier access to 'life'. So you get this kind of cycle, where people move out of some rural spot and then need to be replaced by others that have grown tired of life in the fast lane. I've made this switch myself several times and it is always interesting to see which parts you miss the most of what you left behind.
    - 10y ago
jkot 10y ago
Is it a joke? The Catlins Coast has population 1200 with very low density. Google search returns only seasonal agricultural jobs.
- bpicolo 10y ago
  "Is this small town the next big startup hub?" ;D
gravypod 10y ago
I wish there were places like New Zealand and Australia with less restrictive laws. It's practically the most ideal place for a person like me to live except the local laws are alien and restrictive to me. I wish I knew of a place with few people, few laws, and cheap land.
- usaphp 10y ago
  Can you give couple examples of such laws?
  - olympus 10y ago
    Ummm... you aren't allowed to have a nuclear powerplant or nuclear anything in the entire country. That's the only law peculiar to NZ that is at the top of my mind.
    - gravypod 10y ago
      Gun laws? They some how manage to be more restrictive then where I currently live (New Jersey). You can read up about the nonsensical requirements and categories that all, essentially mechanically similar, firearms fit into. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_New_Zealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_New_Zealand
      - tluyben2 10y ago
        Why is that a problem instead of a perk? Honest question; I am from the EU and I only read the news which shows more restrictive is better. And you seem to imply you could not live there because of this; curious why?
        gravypod 10y ago
        > Why is that a problem instead of a perk [you] imply you could not live there because of this Well, it's because I like guns. Firearms are an amazing hobby. It teaches responsibility, maintenance of a fragile and precision machine, puts you in control of your personal safety, and can put dinner on your plate if you're ever up for a bit of hunting. I subscribe to a very Locke-esq philosophy of life. Where some group begins by regulating one freedom I enjoy, they will not simply stop. All governments will slowly etch away at freedoms that people have in the aim of securing more control over it's citizens (furthering the divide between the peasants and the ruling class). Firearms rights are a very good litmus test for my case since it quickly points to, in my opinion, if the population has given up their own rights to protect themselves and is ready to pack up their freedoms and hand them over to their ruling class. In my personal opinion, an unarmed populous is a completely ruled populous since the people have given up all hope of being in control of their own safety and government's actions. They do this not even for safety but for the illusion of such. I'd like to reverse the question to you. Rather then as "Why is that a problem instead of a perk" in relation to owning firearms, let me ask this about banning fire arms. The facts simply don't align with the assessment that banning fire arms will positively effect anyone. Firearms ownership simply does not correlate to crime. I'll agree that it does correlate with firearm related deaths since that is plainly evident in the data but those deaths are replaced with other means when firearms are taken out of the equation. There are very few recent studies about this on a federal level. This is largely due to the CDC being prohibited from researching firearms related topics. The 'best' source I have found was a source from '07. [0] An "ok" secondary "check" for this, that is by all accounts not a very good measure, is by looking at some charts wikipedia has made [1] [2]. If you go to those two pages you will see that the places with the most fire arms are seldom the most dangerous places. Now, if you change your comparison from Guns vs Intentional Homicide to % People Living Below Poverty Line vs Intentional Homicides you will see something interesting [3]. Once you have >10-20% of the people living below poverty there is a huge increase in homicides. I think if this is studied further that you will find that firearms are a single means to some crimes, not the only mean and that crime correlates to poverty, not firearms ownership. Personally, I don't want my rights to be taken away "just because;" I want a reason for rights being revoked. The plain fact of the matter is that there does not seem to be any reason to revoke the right of firearms ownership. [0] - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004723521400107X http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235214... [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_c... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentage_of_population_living_in_poverty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentag...
galfarragem 10y ago
El dorados are never drawn in the map.
- dalke 10y ago
  Here's an El Dorado - https://www.google.com/maps/place/33%C2%B012'49.0%22N+92%C2%B039'45.0%22W/@33.2049935,-92.7201782,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d33.213611!4d-92.6625?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/place/33%C2%B012'49.0%22N+92%C2%... ;)
  - carterehsmith 10y ago
    Right across the Walmart Supercenter. How come noone found it yet.
  - yellowapple 10y ago
    Complete with a Wal-Mart Supercenter. Looks like heaven already.

50 points by guessmyname 10y ago

I spent 6 months in NZ back in 2000 and the thought of moving there has always been present in my mind. Now that the UK has voted to leave the EU, that pretty much makes my mind up for me - I'll be leaving the UK, and NZ is a serious option. Are there any kiwis in here who can offer some advice for devs considering moving there? Locations to consider? What to expect in terms of wages, cost of living? What is the dev labour market like (e.g. full time gigs or contracts)? In my case, I'm a web dev with Advertising/Marketing, Fashion and financial services experience - I've been developing web apps recently in React. I also dabble in Swift for fun.

adrianmacneil 10y ago
If you want full time web dev work, Auckland and Wellington are really your main options. Cost of living in NZ is high (relative to salaries), but for most people the pace and quality of life make up for it. Given that NZ timezone is only 3-5 hrs difference from the west coast of the US, I personally would look for remote work for a US company while living in NZ (salaries and the exchange rate would be strongly in your favor). However, if you need a visa sponsorship this wouldn't be feasible.
- bonzini 10y ago
  While it's only 3-5 hours difference, you'll effectively be working Sunday-Thursday. It's pretty weird.
  - spacehunt 10y ago
    Wouldn't it be more like Tuesday-Saturday?
    - adrianmacneil 10y ago
      Yes
    - repsilat 10y ago
      It depends what you mean. If you work NZ's Mon-Fri, that'll be Sun-Thu in the US. If you work the US's Mon-Fri, that'll be Tue-Sat in NZ.
Bromskloss 10y ago
Maybe you already knew this, but New Zealand isn't in the EU either.
- gravypod 10y ago
  I was confused by this as well.
- jtmcmc 10y ago
  I think the point is that they see this as a poor decision on the UK's part, enough so that they wish to emigrate.
- tomelders 10y ago
  Sorry, I meant (Old) Zealand. Not really. I'm genuinely concerned about the rise of the right in Europe as a whole and I see the UK referendum result as a great big red flag.
contingencies 10y ago
Kiwi by one of three citizenships here (+AU/DE). AFAIK NZ has the worst rating on the housing affordability index in the western world. We went over and had a look at real estate a couple of years back, but were happy to stay here in China. I would personally consider it only if you want to work remotely, own your own business already, are looking for a good educational environment for children, or love weird great-in-Kiwiland stuff like wild pig shooting, buried BBQs, boats, gardening, learning to fly or building houses in remote, windswept natural locations or something.
- disordinary 10y ago
  That is a huge generalisation, and in fact this article is about affordable housing which therefore contradicts your point. Auckland is not affordable, but Wellington has higher wages and relatively affordable housing. It's still probably high by international standards (but not by the companies that we get directly compared to, namely Australia, Canada, and the UK).
  - contingencies 10y ago
    There are certainly cheaper areas, but what they gain in affordability they tend to lack in jobs, internationalism, vibrancy, services or climate.
- Mandatum 10y ago
  > love weird great-in-Kiwiland stuff like wild pig shooting, buried BBQs, boats, gardening, learning to fly or building houses in remote, windswept natural locations or something. Your idea of "popular" Kiwi past-times is kind of hilarious. I'd say a significant portion of the population has never been any kind of hunting or had a hangi in the past decade. I'd say we're very similar to Vancouver. Nature, sports, bars, mainstream media.
  - contingencies 10y ago
    I never said popular.
te_chris 10y ago
There's certainly work in NZ, but you'll have to live in Auckland, Wellington, Christhurch or Dunedin. Auckland is too expensive to really be worth it, even on high dev salaries.
dzhiurgis 10y ago
Wellington is very windy and thus cold, but it has nice bar culture, is small and very lovely overall. Auckland is much larger and warmer. Number of beaches around so the culture is more around surfing. Also quite a few nice hiking areas ~1hr drive away. I only been in Melbourne and SF for a few days, but Auckland definitely beats them in quality of life. Xero is always seem to be hiring something. There is also a strong albeit small group of functional programmers (find via meetup.com).
- disordinary 10y ago
  That isn't particularly flattering to Wellington. Wellington isn't as windy as our reputation states. There is generally a breeze and one or two big wind events every year. But like much of North America and Europe getting snow, and much of Asia getting the monsoon, Wellington is built to handle it. Buildings are designed to provide wind breaks and even get tested in wind tunnels to make sure that they don't act as a funnel. Generally the weather is pleasant, in Summer it doesn't get above 25 too often, and in winter it's seldom below 10 in the days and 6 at night. We get a frost only a couple of times a year. Wellington has a large inner city mountain bike park, one of the largest inland ecological islands within the city boundaries, and a much more convenient access to nature and the outdoors than probably any other city in the world.
glippiglop 10y ago
2000 was 16 years ago, so it's important to understand that NZ is no longer the same country that you knew. I left in 2005 for the UK and can't imagine returning to NZ to live (last time I visited was 2010). Here's just a few reasons: * I've been spoiled by UK broadband speeds and NZ just doesn't compare. * Food is more expensive, and not of the quality that I'm now used to (fresh seafood would be the exception). * Higher tax relative to what I pay in the UK as a contractor. * Real estate prices are now worse than in the UK * It's an isolated country, you can't just hop on a cheap plane and find yourself in a completely different country & culture an hour or two later. * Purchasing power is greatly limited. In the UK I can buy virtually any obscure item that I want online and get a good price, including P+P. Not so in NZ. * There's very little variety in the job market for software developers, few 'cool' or cutting edge companies and no startup scene worth speaking of. * Finally, cultural experiences are extremely limited. I know I'd miss all the museums, art exhibitions, theatre, concerts, comedians, ballet, opera and so forth. One of the biggest reasons that I left was because of boredom and the UK/EU certainly alleviated that. Source: 27 years of living in NZ.
- disordinary 10y ago
  You realise that the government has been laying fibre to the door for 90% of the population. Or to put off another way 90% of the population will have direct fibre connection by 2018, and most in cities have it already. And while it can't compare to Europe access to countries like Australia, the Pacific islands, and south Asia is quick and convenient. The startup scene in Wellington has exploded, the government funds incubators and lots of companies are fueling each other. Check out the likes of atomic or 8i
- mattmanser 10y ago
  They've changed contractor tax in the UK, this year you'll be paying 10% more than you were (less £500, you're only allowed £5k dividend tax free now).
robocat 10y ago
House prices in NZ are insane compared with salaries. but if you have your own home in UK, you will get a better property over here for the same money. I would recommend Wellington: * most importantly far easier to find friends (whether you have a family, or don't). * plenty of jobs (startup jobs or government jobs or corporate jobs) * great culture * far less commuting (Auckland stinks)
Mandatum 10y ago
Wellington has a good dev and startup culture (that is, for New Zealand). Housing prices are a lot lower too, expect a massive wage cut though unless you're doing remote work for SF-type companies.
- disordinary 10y ago
  Wages are comparable to most western countries, just not SF. Also when you work remotely the remote companies often pay local wages and not SF ones.
Mandatum 10y ago
Wellington has a good dev and startup culture (that is, for New Zealand). Housing prices are a lot lower too, expect a massive wage cut though unless you're doing remote work for SF-type companies.

phantom_oracle 10y ago

There's always a catch, which I wish these articles specified. Like that story about buying an entire town in a radio-silent zone somewhere in the USA. The land was cheap, but the catch was that maintaining it cost north of a million dollars or so.

Johnny555 10y ago
There's no catch - if you're willing to move to a rural area where agriculture is the primary business, you can get a home for $165K. But you don't need to immigrate to New Zealand for this - you can find the same deal in the USA.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  Do you have to work agri culture? I live in a remote-ish place in the mountains where agri culture is the primary business and houses and land can be had for far less than 165k. However I make software from there. Could not be happier. Could someone do that there or is that somehow not allowed? Meaning if there are really no strings I can see me live there easily.
  - Johnny555 10y ago
    I don't think there are any restrictions since as far as I know, the town's website just links to local realtors, anyone that is qualified to buy property there can buy property, no need to sign up for a job in the town. It looks fairly easy to get a NZ work visa if you're in a high-demand occupation, but I don't know what the Visa requirements are for a remote worker, so you'd need to investigate that. But there are thousands of small towns just like it across the world, so it's not clear why you'd pick this particular one based only on this plea from the town for more local workers. If cost of living is important to you and you're ok in a country where English is not the native language, you can certainly find areas with much lower cost of living (while still having good internet access)
stevoski 10y ago
A catch (in my opinion as a New Zealander originally from Christchurch) is that Kaitangata is remote with nasty weather.

Johnny555 10y ago

I think the reason this story became so popular is because it was initially wrongly reported that the town was giving away these $165K land+home packages for anyone that is willing to move there. But in reality, they aren't offering anything for free, they were trying to reach out to NZ citizens that wanted to escape the high cost of living in cities. There are lots of places in rural (and not so rural) America where you can get a house+land for $165K. Here's an article that mentions the earlier misleading headlines: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/02/new-zealand-town-we-have-lots-of-jobs-and-housing-but-we-wont-pay-to-move.html http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/02/new-zealand-town-we-have-lots... "There is currently a story that has been published by overseas media that we are paying people $160,000 to move to Kaitangata and people should ring the Mayor about it. This is NOT TRUE," a statement on the town's website read.

jacquesm 10y ago
In rural Canada you can get houses + a huge amount of land (100 acre lots) for < $100K.
- Glyptodon 10y ago
  But do they have the jobs to go with like this place supposedly does?
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    Well, this place has only a pretty select range of jobs by the looks of it, local industry is quite limited. By the same token you can be a logger in large parts of Canada. I think the best way to interpret the article is to realize that there are many places where people no longer wish to live after several generations and the cities lure with their - presumably - higher incomes and easier access to 'life'. So you get this kind of cycle, where people move out of some rural spot and then need to be replaced by others that have grown tired of life in the fast lane. I've made this switch myself several times and it is always interesting to see which parts you miss the most of what you left behind.
  - 10y ago

jkot 10y ago

Is it a joke? The Catlins Coast has population 1200 with very low density. Google search returns only seasonal agricultural jobs.

bpicolo 10y ago
"Is this small town the next big startup hub?" ;D

gravypod 10y ago

I wish there were places like New Zealand and Australia with less restrictive laws. It's practically the most ideal place for a person like me to live except the local laws are alien and restrictive to me. I wish I knew of a place with few people, few laws, and cheap land.

usaphp 10y ago
Can you give couple examples of such laws?
- olympus 10y ago
  Ummm... you aren't allowed to have a nuclear powerplant or nuclear anything in the entire country. That's the only law peculiar to NZ that is at the top of my mind.
  - gravypod 10y ago
    Gun laws? They some how manage to be more restrictive then where I currently live (New Jersey). You can read up about the nonsensical requirements and categories that all, essentially mechanically similar, firearms fit into. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_New_Zealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_New_Zealand
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      Why is that a problem instead of a perk? Honest question; I am from the EU and I only read the news which shows more restrictive is better. And you seem to imply you could not live there because of this; curious why?
      - gravypod 10y ago
        > Why is that a problem instead of a perk [you] imply you could not live there because of this Well, it's because I like guns. Firearms are an amazing hobby. It teaches responsibility, maintenance of a fragile and precision machine, puts you in control of your personal safety, and can put dinner on your plate if you're ever up for a bit of hunting. I subscribe to a very Locke-esq philosophy of life. Where some group begins by regulating one freedom I enjoy, they will not simply stop. All governments will slowly etch away at freedoms that people have in the aim of securing more control over it's citizens (furthering the divide between the peasants and the ruling class). Firearms rights are a very good litmus test for my case since it quickly points to, in my opinion, if the population has given up their own rights to protect themselves and is ready to pack up their freedoms and hand them over to their ruling class. In my personal opinion, an unarmed populous is a completely ruled populous since the people have given up all hope of being in control of their own safety and government's actions. They do this not even for safety but for the illusion of such. I'd like to reverse the question to you. Rather then as "Why is that a problem instead of a perk" in relation to owning firearms, let me ask this about banning fire arms. The facts simply don't align with the assessment that banning fire arms will positively effect anyone. Firearms ownership simply does not correlate to crime. I'll agree that it does correlate with firearm related deaths since that is plainly evident in the data but those deaths are replaced with other means when firearms are taken out of the equation. There are very few recent studies about this on a federal level. This is largely due to the CDC being prohibited from researching firearms related topics. The 'best' source I have found was a source from '07. [0] An "ok" secondary "check" for this, that is by all accounts not a very good measure, is by looking at some charts wikipedia has made [1] [2]. If you go to those two pages you will see that the places with the most fire arms are seldom the most dangerous places. Now, if you change your comparison from Guns vs Intentional Homicide to % People Living Below Poverty Line vs Intentional Homicides you will see something interesting [3]. Once you have >10-20% of the people living below poverty there is a huge increase in homicides. I think if this is studied further that you will find that firearms are a single means to some crimes, not the only mean and that crime correlates to poverty, not firearms ownership. Personally, I don't want my rights to be taken away "just because;" I want a reason for rights being revoked. The plain fact of the matter is that there does not seem to be any reason to revoke the right of firearms ownership. [0] - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004723521400107X http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235214... [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_c... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentage_of_population_living_in_poverty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentag...

galfarragem 10y ago

El dorados are never drawn in the map.

dalke 10y ago
Here's an El Dorado - https://www.google.com/maps/place/33%C2%B012'49.0%22N+92%C2%B039'45.0%22W/@33.2049935,-92.7201782,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d33.213611!4d-92.6625?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/place/33%C2%B012'49.0%22N+92%C2%... ;)
- carterehsmith 10y ago
  Right across the Walmart Supercenter. How come noone found it yet.
- yellowapple 10y ago
  Complete with a Wal-Mart Supercenter. Looks like heaven already.