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Regarding [3], you're disregarding state and local taxes. I have a hard time seeing anything but an upward trend in a chart like this [4], given that spending d

by cjlars 10y ago

Regarding [3], you're disregarding state and local taxes. I have a hard time seeing anything but an upward trend in a chart like this [4], given that spending deficits must ultimately be paid. [4] http://www.justfacts.com/images/taxes/federal_state_local_revenues_spending-full.png http://www.justfacts.com/images/taxes/federal_state_local_re...

woodandsteel 10y ago
Rich people have many tax loopholes available to them that everyone else doesn't have, including hiding income overseas. And many of them simply break the law, as the Panama papers revealed. And the tax loopholes are there largely because of lobbying and campaign contributions they paid for. You know, if the rich were actually suffering under confiscatory taxes, their percentage of total national income and wealth would be in the decline, but actually it has been steadily going up. Were you really not aware of that?
mcguire 10y ago
You mean the chart that shows "Current Revenues" fluctuating between 25% and 30% of GDP since 1969, after a low of roughly 20% in 1949? I keep forgetting state and local taxes. I'm from Texas, which doesn't have a state income tax; I'm living in Alabama, which has an income tax rate of something like 4%. Both localities rely heavily on sales taxes to a typical tune of about 9% (and sales taxes are regressive, I'll remind you) and property taxes. Anyway, check this: http://taxfoundation.org/article/short-history-government-taxing-and-spending-united-states http://taxfoundation.org/article/short-history-government-ta... Chart 1 duplicates your graph's "Current Revenues" and "Current Spending" lines, while Table 1 shows total gov't receipts as a percent of GDP by (roughly) decade since 1930. In 1950, 22%; 1980, 28%; 2000, 31%; 2012, 26%. So yes, taxes have gone up. But not spectacularly, certainly not as much as deficit spending, and probably not to the excessive detriment of the "moneyed elite".

by cjlars 10y ago

woodandsteel 10y ago

Rich people have many tax loopholes available to them that everyone else doesn't have, including hiding income overseas. And many of them simply break the law, as the Panama papers revealed. And the tax loopholes are there largely because of lobbying and campaign contributions they paid for. You know, if the rich were actually suffering under confiscatory taxes, their percentage of total national income and wealth would be in the decline, but actually it has been steadily going up. Were you really not aware of that?

mcguire 10y ago

You mean the chart that shows "Current Revenues" fluctuating between 25% and 30% of GDP since 1969, after a low of roughly 20% in 1949? I keep forgetting state and local taxes. I'm from Texas, which doesn't have a state income tax; I'm living in Alabama, which has an income tax rate of something like 4%. Both localities rely heavily on sales taxes to a typical tune of about 9% (and sales taxes are regressive, I'll remind you) and property taxes. Anyway, check this: http://taxfoundation.org/article/short-history-government-taxing-and-spending-united-states http://taxfoundation.org/article/short-history-government-ta... Chart 1 duplicates your graph's "Current Revenues" and "Current Spending" lines, while Table 1 shows total gov't receipts as a percent of GDP by (roughly) decade since 1930. In 1950, 22%; 1980, 28%; 2000, 31%; 2012, 26%. So yes, taxes have gone up. But not spectacularly, certainly not as much as deficit spending, and probably not to the excessive detriment of the "moneyed elite".