4 ms·

I don't think they are trolls. The comments are similar to what I hear in real life and I assume they get ample upvotes from HNers because they are near the top

I don't think they are trolls. The comments are similar to what I hear in real life and I assume they get ample upvotes from HNers because they are near the top. If you always have the patience for a and b then god bless you!

tptacek 10y ago
It's a thousand strangers. My life doesn't get a scintilla better if I can accurately characterize the people who write misogynistic comments on HN as 68% troll or 49% troll. But the task of reliably and civilly challenging prejudice here gets a lot easier the higher that percentage gets, so for my own benefit, I prefer to dial it up as high as it can go, and I'm happier for it. You can relax on challenging racism on HN sometimes. It gets tiresome! You can even walk away entirely. But please don't trash the site on the way out --- that makes the job harder for everyone else taking the time to call out toxic bullshit here. You can't relax on being calm and civil, even in response to comments that don't deserve it. Think about it this way, because this is probably true: every time we fuck up and write a nasty, shrill response to a racist comment, we generate a light-grey negative-rated rebuttal to racism. If we're particularly bad about responding, we'll park that comment next to a racist comment that keeps a neutral score just out of sympathy. Please don't do that.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- kelukelugames 10y ago
  You can't relax on being calm and civil, even in response to comments that don't deserve it. Think about it this way, because this is probably true: every time we fuck up and write a nasty, shrill response to a racist comment, we generate a light-grey negative-rated rebuttal to racism. If we're particularly bad about responding, we'll park that comment next to a racist comment that keeps a neutral score just out of sympathy. Hacker News! Where reacting to racism is worse than actual racism.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    You can call it whatever you want, but if you make uncivil arguments, it's a fact that: (a) your posts are going to get flagged, and people are going to see that they got flagged, and your "anti-racist" comments are going be penalized, often farther than the racist ones, and (b) you're eventually going to get banned from the site You can huff off to Twitter like the rest of the cool kids when that happens, but I'll observe that there's already a sizable contingent of cool kids claiming that HN is a bastion of misogyny and racism, and Lobsters is no closer to taking over the world for their efforts --- would that it were otherwise! I guess I would sum this up as follows: This is a real problem, and it doesn't have to be about you.
    - kelukelugames 10y ago
      Call it whatever I want? It's called tone policing and it's a real problem. You are part of it.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        If that's what you want to call moderation and the site guidelines, OK. I know you're not a troll. But you make lazy, weak arguments, and it seems to upset you that they're not winning simply because you're right. You don't have to stay upset and unhappy. There's a better way.
        kelukelugames 10y ago
        Now you are blatantly ignoring the principle of charity. I like HN because of its tight guidelines and moderation. Tone policing is a systematic problem in our society, one which you shouldn't dismiss as weak and lazy, especially since the culprits are typically privileged males. You will grow more as a person if you take the time to learn from people from different backgrounds. Furthermore, assumptions about me aren't productive but I doubt dang will say anything.
        jsprogrammer 10y ago

tptacek 10y ago

It's a thousand strangers. My life doesn't get a scintilla better if I can accurately characterize the people who write misogynistic comments on HN as 68% troll or 49% troll. But the task of reliably and civilly challenging prejudice here gets a lot easier the higher that percentage gets, so for my own benefit, I prefer to dial it up as high as it can go, and I'm happier for it. You can relax on challenging racism on HN sometimes. It gets tiresome! You can even walk away entirely. But please don't trash the site on the way out --- that makes the job harder for everyone else taking the time to call out toxic bullshit here. You can't relax on being calm and civil, even in response to comments that don't deserve it. Think about it this way, because this is probably true: every time we fuck up and write a nasty, shrill response to a racist comment, we generate a light-grey negative-rated rebuttal to racism. If we're particularly bad about responding, we'll park that comment next to a racist comment that keeps a neutral score just out of sympathy. Please don't do that.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
kelukelugames 10y ago
You can't relax on being calm and civil, even in response to comments that don't deserve it. Think about it this way, because this is probably true: every time we fuck up and write a nasty, shrill response to a racist comment, we generate a light-grey negative-rated rebuttal to racism. If we're particularly bad about responding, we'll park that comment next to a racist comment that keeps a neutral score just out of sympathy. Hacker News! Where reacting to racism is worse than actual racism.
- tptacek 10y ago
  You can call it whatever you want, but if you make uncivil arguments, it's a fact that: (a) your posts are going to get flagged, and people are going to see that they got flagged, and your "anti-racist" comments are going be penalized, often farther than the racist ones, and (b) you're eventually going to get banned from the site You can huff off to Twitter like the rest of the cool kids when that happens, but I'll observe that there's already a sizable contingent of cool kids claiming that HN is a bastion of misogyny and racism, and Lobsters is no closer to taking over the world for their efforts --- would that it were otherwise! I guess I would sum this up as follows: This is a real problem, and it doesn't have to be about you.
  - kelukelugames 10y ago
    Call it whatever I want? It's called tone policing and it's a real problem. You are part of it.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      If that's what you want to call moderation and the site guidelines, OK. I know you're not a troll. But you make lazy, weak arguments, and it seems to upset you that they're not winning simply because you're right. You don't have to stay upset and unhappy. There's a better way.
      - kelukelugames 10y ago
        Now you are blatantly ignoring the principle of charity. I like HN because of its tight guidelines and moderation. Tone policing is a systematic problem in our society, one which you shouldn't dismiss as weak and lazy, especially since the culprits are typically privileged males. You will grow more as a person if you take the time to learn from people from different backgrounds. Furthermore, assumptions about me aren't productive but I doubt dang will say anything.
        jsprogrammer 10y ago