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I have always found it more interesting than Tor. After learning some Java, I read through the code, even compiled seminole Monotone DVCS(ironically difficult,

by 616c 10y ago

I have always found it more interesting than Tor. After learning some Java, I read through the code, even compiled seminole Monotone DVCS(ironically difficult, because of the recently mentioned legacy version of the Botan C++ crypto library), but it is all a little beyond me. Perhaps one of the coolest projects I'd seen in a while was Nightweb, a I2P-layered distributed social network, written in Clojure, flashing all the hipster programming bling as it be. https://github.com/oakes/Nightweb https://github.com/oakes/Nightweb I have always wondered if it gets the same level of scrutiny or interest from researchers or nation states, as it was largely self-contained and not meant to onion route to public Internet like Tor (judging from my reading of the design). Please, HNers, school me and impress me with your I2P trivia and knowledge.

kseistrup 10y ago
Nightweb is discontinued ⌘ https://sekao.net/nightweb/blog/discontinued.html https://sekao.net/nightweb/blog/discontinued.html
- 616c 10y ago
  Yeah, was sad to read Reddit when it happened.
cloudjacker 10y ago
I2P interest and development has grown with the direct monetization path of more anonymous cryptocurrencies that have attempted to partner with I2P over the years, such as Monero There have been other cryptocurrencies that had the ethos of being anonymous, such as "anoncoin" but functioned exactly like bitcoin and never was able to develop their obfuscation layer It is all still in its infancy
- 616c 10y ago
  Has it? I had not heard of Monero. You got stuff I can read? I am curious about the I2P culture, if you are in the know.
  - cloudjacker 10y ago
    None of the cryptocurrency communities have successfully integrated with I2P. The primary goal being to include a native I2P routing client within all of the respective cryptocurrency's daemon's and client software. (Most cryptocurrencies broadcast a lot of information about you to the nodes, and when you really dive into it, the result is a little unsettling. In this regard it is kind of like bittorrent where other peers in the network can see information about you.) As far as formal partnerships go, Anoncoin was the closest, where they got some public mention from the I2P stewards, and had icons on the I2P dashboard when you logged into that darknet. Anoncoin's steward disappeared with an unsuccessful zerocoin implementation and exit scam. This was 2014. Monero is an opaque blockchain that has worked out of the box as a private cryptocurrency since early 2014. My cryptocurrency market capitalization, it has remained around #10 for two years. It is one of the more actively developed cryptocurrencies, and I2P integration is still on their roadmap. There's nothing else to really say about I2P. There hasn't been much public research into how it works or vulnerabilities, as with the TOR network. I understand it works quite a bit differently, and what I do know is appealing. But it is currently "meh". Some sites that are super annoying to TOR users, work extremely well under I2P and don't detect that you are not a clearnet user.
    - 616c 10y ago
      I had the same reaction, but largely because I2P is under the radar; Tor gets a lot more attention, in both the good ways and bad.
  - plasticmachine 10y ago
    Monero has got an I2P router in C++ as one of their projects: https://github.com/monero-project/kovri https://github.com/monero-project/kovri If you want some general information on Monero then this is a good talk on Bitcoin privacy and on what Monero is and does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVlQE-ObEXk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVlQE-ObEXk
petra 10y ago
>> I have always wondered if it gets the same level of scrutiny or interest from researchers or nation states My guess is the I2P gets more scrutiny from the US government, because it's much harder to break versus TOR(for which there we're always probably some attacks). It might even be that TOR is a government response for the demand for anonymizing networks - funded specifically in order for the anonymity community to do something else than I2P and anonymous remailers, and seems that the community mostly went with it.
- 616c 10y ago
  >> My guess is the I2P gets more scrutiny from the US government, because it's much harder to break versus TOR How so? Is this what is alluded to by "onion vs garlic" routing design? http://resources.infosecinstitute.com/anonymizing-networks-tor-vs-i2p/ http://resources.infosecinstitute.com/anonymizing-networks-t... (I can't get the I2P explanation/comparison on their official site right now; not sure it's me or them, haha.) Again, I read a while back. I am pleased to know it is more secure. Personally, I liked they had easily accessible Android builds directly from them at the time. But the Tor devs do so much good development, tech writing on the blog, and research publication it is hard to love or hate either group as they save the Internet from itself.
  - pwg 10y ago
    >> My guess is the I2P gets more scrutiny from the US government, because it's much harder to break versus TOR > How so? Is this what is alluded to by "onion vs garlic" routing design? For one, it is a closed overlay network. There are no "exit nodes" (well, not unless someone explicitly setup a proxy to provide "exit" functionality). So everything that happens anywhere within I2P remains inside I2P. So any attacks on TOR that require control of one or more exit nodes in the TOR network to function will not directly function against I2P (no exit nodes). Now, that has no bearing upon whether there are other, different, exploits in I2P that would break its hidden aspects, but you can at least know you are immune when using I2P to any TOR exploit that requires exit nodes.
    - 10y ago
syngrog66 10y ago
> Please, HNers, school me and impress me with your I2P trivia and knowledge. even if you didn't ask this, this is what many HN users would feel they read. Be prepared for a flood of replies telling you precisely how you are not quite perfectly right, or, are blatantly wrong and moronic, because they themselves are perfect and all-knowing, and you yourself must be lacking in the department of subtlely and nuance. ;-)

by 616c 10y ago

kseistrup 10y ago

Nightweb is discontinued ⌘ https://sekao.net/nightweb/blog/discontinued.html https://sekao.net/nightweb/blog/discontinued.html

616c 10y ago
Yeah, was sad to read Reddit when it happened.

cloudjacker 10y ago

I2P interest and development has grown with the direct monetization path of more anonymous cryptocurrencies that have attempted to partner with I2P over the years, such as Monero There have been other cryptocurrencies that had the ethos of being anonymous, such as "anoncoin" but functioned exactly like bitcoin and never was able to develop their obfuscation layer It is all still in its infancy

616c 10y ago
Has it? I had not heard of Monero. You got stuff I can read? I am curious about the I2P culture, if you are in the know.
- cloudjacker 10y ago
  None of the cryptocurrency communities have successfully integrated with I2P. The primary goal being to include a native I2P routing client within all of the respective cryptocurrency's daemon's and client software. (Most cryptocurrencies broadcast a lot of information about you to the nodes, and when you really dive into it, the result is a little unsettling. In this regard it is kind of like bittorrent where other peers in the network can see information about you.) As far as formal partnerships go, Anoncoin was the closest, where they got some public mention from the I2P stewards, and had icons on the I2P dashboard when you logged into that darknet. Anoncoin's steward disappeared with an unsuccessful zerocoin implementation and exit scam. This was 2014. Monero is an opaque blockchain that has worked out of the box as a private cryptocurrency since early 2014. My cryptocurrency market capitalization, it has remained around #10 for two years. It is one of the more actively developed cryptocurrencies, and I2P integration is still on their roadmap. There's nothing else to really say about I2P. There hasn't been much public research into how it works or vulnerabilities, as with the TOR network. I understand it works quite a bit differently, and what I do know is appealing. But it is currently "meh". Some sites that are super annoying to TOR users, work extremely well under I2P and don't detect that you are not a clearnet user.
  - 616c 10y ago
    I had the same reaction, but largely because I2P is under the radar; Tor gets a lot more attention, in both the good ways and bad.
- plasticmachine 10y ago
  Monero has got an I2P router in C++ as one of their projects: https://github.com/monero-project/kovri https://github.com/monero-project/kovri If you want some general information on Monero then this is a good talk on Bitcoin privacy and on what Monero is and does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVlQE-ObEXk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVlQE-ObEXk

petra 10y ago

>> I have always wondered if it gets the same level of scrutiny or interest from researchers or nation states My guess is the I2P gets more scrutiny from the US government, because it's much harder to break versus TOR(for which there we're always probably some attacks). It might even be that TOR is a government response for the demand for anonymizing networks - funded specifically in order for the anonymity community to do something else than I2P and anonymous remailers, and seems that the community mostly went with it.

616c 10y ago
>> My guess is the I2P gets more scrutiny from the US government, because it's much harder to break versus TOR How so? Is this what is alluded to by "onion vs garlic" routing design? http://resources.infosecinstitute.com/anonymizing-networks-tor-vs-i2p/ http://resources.infosecinstitute.com/anonymizing-networks-t... (I can't get the I2P explanation/comparison on their official site right now; not sure it's me or them, haha.) Again, I read a while back. I am pleased to know it is more secure. Personally, I liked they had easily accessible Android builds directly from them at the time. But the Tor devs do so much good development, tech writing on the blog, and research publication it is hard to love or hate either group as they save the Internet from itself.
- pwg 10y ago
  >> My guess is the I2P gets more scrutiny from the US government, because it's much harder to break versus TOR > How so? Is this what is alluded to by "onion vs garlic" routing design? For one, it is a closed overlay network. There are no "exit nodes" (well, not unless someone explicitly setup a proxy to provide "exit" functionality). So everything that happens anywhere within I2P remains inside I2P. So any attacks on TOR that require control of one or more exit nodes in the TOR network to function will not directly function against I2P (no exit nodes). Now, that has no bearing upon whether there are other, different, exploits in I2P that would break its hidden aspects, but you can at least know you are immune when using I2P to any TOR exploit that requires exit nodes.
  - 10y ago

syngrog66 10y ago

> Please, HNers, school me and impress me with your I2P trivia and knowledge. even if you didn't ask this, this is what many HN users would feel they read. Be prepared for a flood of replies telling you precisely how you are not quite perfectly right, or, are blatantly wrong and moronic, because they themselves are perfect and all-knowing, and you yourself must be lacking in the department of subtlely and nuance. ;-)