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> Oh, cry me a river. It's a global economy, this "national tech industry" bull needs to stop. If they can't out-compete globally, that's too bad. Maybe we shou

by meira 10y ago

> Oh, cry me a river. It's a global economy, this "national tech industry" bull needs to stop. If they can't out-compete globally, that's too bad. Maybe we should try to figure out WHY they cannot effectively compete in the first place? Hint: it's not Facebook's fault. This "philosophy" is great, if you're the one with the goodies and services everybody wants. Most of the countries in the top of this chain are VERY protective of their own industries, and that's is why, in the first place, how they got in the top of the industry. Here in Brazil, unfortunately, we have the only other type of people that thinks this "philosophy" is good: the brazilians "vira-latas" (mutts), the ones who think that the best economic theories that works is the ones imposed by "developed" economies. Most of these guys (like the one I'm replying) don't know about history and how these economies got developed to begin with. And it has nothing to do with "liberalism" or free market. Much the opposite.

outworlder 10y ago
> This "philosophy" is great, if you're the one with the goodies and services everybody wants. Most of the countries in the top of this chain are VERY protective of their own industries And Brazil isn't? I have lived during the "reserva de mercado" times, where imports from "competitors" where not allowed at all. This has created a enormous technological deficit, which I think we haven't recovered from yet. Protectionism is still going strong, with ~60% import tax on foreign products. And guess what, even with all the protection, the industry is still in shambles. Politicians are still trying to erect more walls, such as trying to require internet companies to have datacenters in Brazil in order to be able to operate. Do you think this is the right way to go? I'll try to ignore your ad-hominen. I have lived through a bunch of the history you are claiming I don't know anything about.
- meira 10y ago
  > I'll try to ignore your ad-hominen. I have lived through a bunch of the history you are claiming I don't know anything about. Why do you believe that your alleged personal experience is a good economy theory? Let's first put some names in your "explanations". The "reserva de mercado" was a economic strategy used by the Militares in the Dictactorship time. So of course, this was not a good strategy, mainly because it was focused on industries belonging to the bourgeoisie and elite, not in things like food and familiar agriculture. After the end of the military dictatorship, anoter right-wing party took power, beginning with Fernando Collor and finishing with Fernando Henrique Cardoso, they lowered all taxes, spent ALL our reserves buying US goodies and the last one, FHC, requested 3 IMF bailouts. Lefting all national industry broken. This only started to change in recent times. But now explain to me how the "end of protectionism" (that never protected brazilians, only the elite) and the sequential neoliberalism made Brazil a great country?
  - rglullis 10y ago
    You have to decide which side of the argument you want to be on: just on another thread you are actually defending the protectionist Chinese policies which, guess what?, are exactly about "protecting the industries belonging to the bourgeoisie and the elite". Also, you are factually wrong about taxes during Collor and FHC. Precisely because of the austerity policies (which were "imposed" by the IMF), the effective tax burden went from ~25% to ~36% of the GDP. Would you like to have an honest conversation, opening yourself to new ideas, striving to teaching and learning? Or are you just trying to "win" an online argument? If it is the former, please let me know, so I can find something more useful to do with my time.
    - meira 10y ago
      rglullis, you have to calm down yourself and decide in which thread we are talking. Don't mix things up :)
      - rglullis 10y ago
        No matter the thread, you keep evading responding to the most fundamental of the questions. Stop with the bullshitting, and take it like a man: you are wrong about the basics, so it would mean a lot if you could just acknowledge that this PT-fed narrative is bad revisionism.

by meira 10y ago

outworlder 10y ago

> This "philosophy" is great, if you're the one with the goodies and services everybody wants. Most of the countries in the top of this chain are VERY protective of their own industries And Brazil isn't? I have lived during the "reserva de mercado" times, where imports from "competitors" where not allowed at all. This has created a enormous technological deficit, which I think we haven't recovered from yet. Protectionism is still going strong, with ~60% import tax on foreign products. And guess what, even with all the protection, the industry is still in shambles. Politicians are still trying to erect more walls, such as trying to require internet companies to have datacenters in Brazil in order to be able to operate. Do you think this is the right way to go? I'll try to ignore your ad-hominen. I have lived through a bunch of the history you are claiming I don't know anything about.

meira 10y ago
> I'll try to ignore your ad-hominen. I have lived through a bunch of the history you are claiming I don't know anything about. Why do you believe that your alleged personal experience is a good economy theory? Let's first put some names in your "explanations". The "reserva de mercado" was a economic strategy used by the Militares in the Dictactorship time. So of course, this was not a good strategy, mainly because it was focused on industries belonging to the bourgeoisie and elite, not in things like food and familiar agriculture. After the end of the military dictatorship, anoter right-wing party took power, beginning with Fernando Collor and finishing with Fernando Henrique Cardoso, they lowered all taxes, spent ALL our reserves buying US goodies and the last one, FHC, requested 3 IMF bailouts. Lefting all national industry broken. This only started to change in recent times. But now explain to me how the "end of protectionism" (that never protected brazilians, only the elite) and the sequential neoliberalism made Brazil a great country?
- rglullis 10y ago
  You have to decide which side of the argument you want to be on: just on another thread you are actually defending the protectionist Chinese policies which, guess what?, are exactly about "protecting the industries belonging to the bourgeoisie and the elite". Also, you are factually wrong about taxes during Collor and FHC. Precisely because of the austerity policies (which were "imposed" by the IMF), the effective tax burden went from ~25% to ~36% of the GDP. Would you like to have an honest conversation, opening yourself to new ideas, striving to teaching and learning? Or are you just trying to "win" an online argument? If it is the former, please let me know, so I can find something more useful to do with my time.
  - meira 10y ago
    rglullis, you have to calm down yourself and decide in which thread we are talking. Don't mix things up :)
    - rglullis 10y ago
      No matter the thread, you keep evading responding to the most fundamental of the questions. Stop with the bullshitting, and take it like a man: you are wrong about the basics, so it would mean a lot if you could just acknowledge that this PT-fed narrative is bad revisionism.