4 ms·

I think they shouldn't have complained about something that everyone was following, and a formal code is not very uncommon. I also think that firing everyone po

I think they shouldn't have complained about something that everyone was following, and a formal code is not very uncommon. I also think that firing everyone point blank just because they wrote a letter is an extreme overreaction. They could have been lectured on professional behavior instead and I'm sure most of them would have understood.

jessriedel 10y ago
Punishment completely aside, as an employer I'd simply want nothing to do with these intern in the future. Protesting something like this is a good signal of their attitude/perspective.
- hk__2 10y ago
  > Protesting something like this is a good signal of their attitude/perspective. Why? They saw something they didn’t like and wrote a letter suggesting an alternative. I see that as a very good attitude.
  - jasonkostempski 10y ago
    They based their anger on a stupid assumption and didn't bother to get clarification before going full steam ahead. This wasn't a protest, it was an angry mob.
    - masklinn 10y ago
      > didn't bother to get clarification before going full steam ahead According to the original report they tried to and were shut down: > I spoke with my manager about being allowed some leeway under the dress code and was told this was not possible, despite the other person being allowed to do it. I soon found out that many of the other interns felt the same way, and the ones who asked their managers about it were told the same thing as me. They were told it was a medical exemption after having been summarily fired. > This wasn't a protest, it was an angry mob. Are you off your rocker? They wrote a fucking proposal they didn't try to put management to the torch.
      - jasonkostempski 10y ago
        I've made a stupid assumption and didn't bother to get clarification before commenting full steam ahead.
    - blktiger 10y ago
      Angry mobs don't write letters.
  - droopybuns 10y ago
    Leaders inspire. Many people grow up believing that protesting is the same thing. But at its foundation, it is resisting leadership direction. Managers are people too- and at some point you have to cut your losses if you lose hope that you will be able to inspire your employees. The managers know they are asking extra from the staff with dress codes in this day and age. It doesn't happen naturally, so they write policy. They expect to deal with resistance, and sometimes they are seeking out policy resistors for promotions. But a mass uprising is a huge fiasco to deal with. You are missing the crux of the problem when you say they wrote a letter suggesting an alternative. They drafted a petition against leadership direction and had almost everyone sign it. That is a protest. It is a serious problem for management and it requires action: capitulate to airhead interns who won't be here next year or cancel the program? These kids should have known this, but like many young people, they had an opportunity to learn a lesson the hard way.
- keithpeter 10y ago
  Management might actually need people who will ask questions or challenge certain kinds of group thinking at some point. You never know what the future might bring.
- timonovici 10y ago
  So, you would just fire people because they wanted to wear more comfortable shoes, and they sent a letter about it? There are places where shoes/clothing really matters, like a mechanics shop (with their overalls), a construction site (the steel reinforcement of the tip of the shoe), a woodworking shop, where baggy clothing could lead to injury - but that's definitely not the case in the article. These control freaks really annoy me, and I feel lucky to work in IT, most of the places I worked so far would allow you to wear short pants, or whatever.
  - SFJulie 10y ago
    As said in the comments above they where fired because they did naïvely what unions are doing : mutualizing workers' claims to heir hierarchy and make a front. The article take the thesis of the "youth are worse than before" like Socrates was saying (so old story) The real part of the story is due to experience, the older you are the more likely you are to be a manager or a boss. Hence elder generations will always blame new generations for not knowing their place in this system. And younger person will fall for the trick like their elder, because that what bullying is for: engraving a behavior as a collective norm.
masklinn 10y ago
> I think they shouldn't have complained about something that everyone was following > they weren’t going to complain. That is, “until I noticed one of the workers always wore flat shoes that were made from a fabric other than leather, or running shoes, even though both of these things were contrary to the dress code.” The interns were told that was a medical exemption… after they were mass-fired, but not when they initially inquired about the possibility of relaxed dress code: > I spoke with my manager about being allowed some leeway under the dress code and was told this was not possible, despite the other person being allowed to do it. > They could have been lectured on professional behavior instead and I'm sure most of them would have understood. I don't understand how sending queries/proposals up the chain is unprofessional behaviour. Ignoring the dress code and coming in not following it would be unprofessional behaviour. They asked informally, they got shut down (rather than answered), they went with a more formal query, they were fired. That's sounds nothing like "interns are guests" but it sounds a lot like Corporate America's reaction to union noises.
- yesiamyourdad 10y ago
  This is basically an article reporting on an advice column, so it's pretty light on details. Given that the incident was framed as a protest, I'd say that there was likely more to it than simply writing a letter. It could be that the letter took a disrespectful tone, or it could be that they backed up the letter with some kind of protest action. Or maybe the employer is just a douchey company. You can't really tell. Personally I can't imagine a story like this even occurring in 1986. The whole idea of mass protest over something trivial is a very 21st century concept.
  - masklinn 10y ago
    > Given that the incident was framed as a protest The yahoo repost/clickbait framed it as a protest with no evidence I can see, the original source does not frame it as a protest: http://www.askamanager.org/2016/06/i-was-fired-from-my-internship-for-writing-a-proposal-for-a-more-flexible-dress-code.html http://www.askamanager.org/2016/06/i-was-fired-from-my-inter...
- throwanem 10y ago

jessriedel 10y ago

Punishment completely aside, as an employer I'd simply want nothing to do with these intern in the future. Protesting something like this is a good signal of their attitude/perspective.

hk__2 10y ago
> Protesting something like this is a good signal of their attitude/perspective. Why? They saw something they didn’t like and wrote a letter suggesting an alternative. I see that as a very good attitude.
- jasonkostempski 10y ago
  They based their anger on a stupid assumption and didn't bother to get clarification before going full steam ahead. This wasn't a protest, it was an angry mob.
  - masklinn 10y ago
    > didn't bother to get clarification before going full steam ahead According to the original report they tried to and were shut down: > I spoke with my manager about being allowed some leeway under the dress code and was told this was not possible, despite the other person being allowed to do it. I soon found out that many of the other interns felt the same way, and the ones who asked their managers about it were told the same thing as me. They were told it was a medical exemption after having been summarily fired. > This wasn't a protest, it was an angry mob. Are you off your rocker? They wrote a fucking proposal they didn't try to put management to the torch.
    - jasonkostempski 10y ago
      I've made a stupid assumption and didn't bother to get clarification before commenting full steam ahead.
  - blktiger 10y ago
    Angry mobs don't write letters.
- droopybuns 10y ago
  Leaders inspire. Many people grow up believing that protesting is the same thing. But at its foundation, it is resisting leadership direction. Managers are people too- and at some point you have to cut your losses if you lose hope that you will be able to inspire your employees. The managers know they are asking extra from the staff with dress codes in this day and age. It doesn't happen naturally, so they write policy. They expect to deal with resistance, and sometimes they are seeking out policy resistors for promotions. But a mass uprising is a huge fiasco to deal with. You are missing the crux of the problem when you say they wrote a letter suggesting an alternative. They drafted a petition against leadership direction and had almost everyone sign it. That is a protest. It is a serious problem for management and it requires action: capitulate to airhead interns who won't be here next year or cancel the program? These kids should have known this, but like many young people, they had an opportunity to learn a lesson the hard way.
keithpeter 10y ago
Management might actually need people who will ask questions or challenge certain kinds of group thinking at some point. You never know what the future might bring.
timonovici 10y ago
So, you would just fire people because they wanted to wear more comfortable shoes, and they sent a letter about it? There are places where shoes/clothing really matters, like a mechanics shop (with their overalls), a construction site (the steel reinforcement of the tip of the shoe), a woodworking shop, where baggy clothing could lead to injury - but that's definitely not the case in the article. These control freaks really annoy me, and I feel lucky to work in IT, most of the places I worked so far would allow you to wear short pants, or whatever.
- SFJulie 10y ago
  As said in the comments above they where fired because they did naïvely what unions are doing : mutualizing workers' claims to heir hierarchy and make a front. The article take the thesis of the "youth are worse than before" like Socrates was saying (so old story) The real part of the story is due to experience, the older you are the more likely you are to be a manager or a boss. Hence elder generations will always blame new generations for not knowing their place in this system. And younger person will fall for the trick like their elder, because that what bullying is for: engraving a behavior as a collective norm.

masklinn 10y ago

> I think they shouldn't have complained about something that everyone was following > they weren’t going to complain. That is, “until I noticed one of the workers always wore flat shoes that were made from a fabric other than leather, or running shoes, even though both of these things were contrary to the dress code.” The interns were told that was a medical exemption… after they were mass-fired, but not when they initially inquired about the possibility of relaxed dress code: > I spoke with my manager about being allowed some leeway under the dress code and was told this was not possible, despite the other person being allowed to do it. > They could have been lectured on professional behavior instead and I'm sure most of them would have understood. I don't understand how sending queries/proposals up the chain is unprofessional behaviour. Ignoring the dress code and coming in not following it would be unprofessional behaviour. They asked informally, they got shut down (rather than answered), they went with a more formal query, they were fired. That's sounds nothing like "interns are guests" but it sounds a lot like Corporate America's reaction to union noises.

yesiamyourdad 10y ago
This is basically an article reporting on an advice column, so it's pretty light on details. Given that the incident was framed as a protest, I'd say that there was likely more to it than simply writing a letter. It could be that the letter took a disrespectful tone, or it could be that they backed up the letter with some kind of protest action. Or maybe the employer is just a douchey company. You can't really tell. Personally I can't imagine a story like this even occurring in 1986. The whole idea of mass protest over something trivial is a very 21st century concept.
- masklinn 10y ago
  > Given that the incident was framed as a protest The yahoo repost/clickbait framed it as a protest with no evidence I can see, the original source does not frame it as a protest: http://www.askamanager.org/2016/06/i-was-fired-from-my-internship-for-writing-a-proposal-for-a-more-flexible-dress-code.html http://www.askamanager.org/2016/06/i-was-fired-from-my-inter...
throwanem 10y ago