5 ms·

This is what I hate about closed source software in general. Every sysadmin out there has complaints about how terrible support is from XYZ vendor, but it's not

by MertsA 10y ago

This is what I hate about closed source software in general. Every sysadmin out there has complaints about how terrible support is from XYZ vendor, but it's not just that the vendor can't provide support, it's that by going closed source, the vendor is the only one who can really track down these sort of bugs. With an open source stack, no matter what breaks in any software component, I'm not left high and dry hoping that some vendor who charges buckets of cash per incident is competent. As a sysadmin, I'm putting my neck on the line anytime something breaks. I need to be able to fix things when the vendor fails.

loteck 10y ago
As a sysadmin, I'm putting my neck on the line anytime something breaks. In many years of doing this type of work, I've noticed this fear of your neck being on the line is a myth. Heads rarely roll merely because something goes wrong. I've also noticed almost every sysadmin believes that myth, and it can make us very difficult to relate to or even work with. Ironically, that's a problem that may actually cause you to lose your job.
- SystemOut 10y ago
  Back when I used to lead the engineering group for a company I was asked to also lead the IT and Ops teams. I was amazed at how many of the sys admins lived in fear that anything going wrong or taking a risk on something new and it not working as expected would get them fired. Virtually no one wanted to take any risks because of this fear. It took a long time of working with the team and demonstrating that people did not get fired when things went wrong. It was a real eye opener for me.
tonyedgecombe 10y ago
A good vendor will work with you to resolve the problem, not all closed source software is bad.
- wpietri 10y ago
  I'm familiar with that theory, but from my personal experience I'd put the number of good-vendor software packages around 1%. And in retrospect, I'm not sure those cases were so much "good vendor" as "vendor over whom we had significant financial leverage".
  - Joeri 10y ago
    From my personal experience I've only gotten consistently good support from Cloudera and Jetbrains, out of some 20-odd companies that I've contacted for paid support. So, for me the figure is more like 10% instead of 1%.
- bluejekyll 10y ago
  I posit that all software has bugs. If this is true, closed source vendor software allows you no insight into the inner workings of the code; you are always at the mercy of the vendor. Open-Source software has bugs, but it gives you the ability to look into the issues directly; allowing you to figure it out if you want. The cool thing in open-source is you can always absolve yourself of responsibility and hire a vendor or maintainer or others to help fix the problem if there is one. Which means you have N potential solutions to a problem, compared to just 1 with a closed source vendor.
TeMPOraL 10y ago
Issues like the one in the article are orthogonal to the openness of software. Quite often, the problem lies in a set of settings that each have perfectly legitimate reason to be what they are that together interact in a bad way, even though every component is working as it should.
- Natanael_L 10y ago
  Similar to composability problems in cryptography. Naively combining primitives that individually hold certain security guarantees will most certainly undo all of the security, instead of "stacking" these individual guarantees. Usually you can trace the insecurity to mismatched assumptions, unhandled edge cases or a failure to consider global contexts (like where you accidentally turn one function into a decryption oracle for another).
Joeri 10y ago
This is why every web developer needs to learn to read C and C++, and how to navigate a codebase written in either of those, even if they never write any programs in them. Most of the software we use is built with those two languages. If you can't read them, you can't track down what's happening behind the curtain.
- jahnu 10y ago
  I think that's a little optimistic and to be honest, unrealistic. A problem shared is a problem halved. In this case every web developer needs to have a network of people to collaborate with in order to diagnose the problem.

by MertsA 10y ago

loteck 10y ago

As a sysadmin, I'm putting my neck on the line anytime something breaks. In many years of doing this type of work, I've noticed this fear of your neck being on the line is a myth. Heads rarely roll merely because something goes wrong. I've also noticed almost every sysadmin believes that myth, and it can make us very difficult to relate to or even work with. Ironically, that's a problem that may actually cause you to lose your job.

SystemOut 10y ago
Back when I used to lead the engineering group for a company I was asked to also lead the IT and Ops teams. I was amazed at how many of the sys admins lived in fear that anything going wrong or taking a risk on something new and it not working as expected would get them fired. Virtually no one wanted to take any risks because of this fear. It took a long time of working with the team and demonstrating that people did not get fired when things went wrong. It was a real eye opener for me.

tonyedgecombe 10y ago

A good vendor will work with you to resolve the problem, not all closed source software is bad.

wpietri 10y ago
I'm familiar with that theory, but from my personal experience I'd put the number of good-vendor software packages around 1%. And in retrospect, I'm not sure those cases were so much "good vendor" as "vendor over whom we had significant financial leverage".
- Joeri 10y ago
  From my personal experience I've only gotten consistently good support from Cloudera and Jetbrains, out of some 20-odd companies that I've contacted for paid support. So, for me the figure is more like 10% instead of 1%.
bluejekyll 10y ago
I posit that all software has bugs. If this is true, closed source vendor software allows you no insight into the inner workings of the code; you are always at the mercy of the vendor. Open-Source software has bugs, but it gives you the ability to look into the issues directly; allowing you to figure it out if you want. The cool thing in open-source is you can always absolve yourself of responsibility and hire a vendor or maintainer or others to help fix the problem if there is one. Which means you have N potential solutions to a problem, compared to just 1 with a closed source vendor.

TeMPOraL 10y ago

Issues like the one in the article are orthogonal to the openness of software. Quite often, the problem lies in a set of settings that each have perfectly legitimate reason to be what they are that together interact in a bad way, even though every component is working as it should.

Natanael_L 10y ago
Similar to composability problems in cryptography. Naively combining primitives that individually hold certain security guarantees will most certainly undo all of the security, instead of "stacking" these individual guarantees. Usually you can trace the insecurity to mismatched assumptions, unhandled edge cases or a failure to consider global contexts (like where you accidentally turn one function into a decryption oracle for another).

Joeri 10y ago

This is why every web developer needs to learn to read C and C++, and how to navigate a codebase written in either of those, even if they never write any programs in them. Most of the software we use is built with those two languages. If you can't read them, you can't track down what's happening behind the curtain.

jahnu 10y ago
I think that's a little optimistic and to be honest, unrealistic. A problem shared is a problem halved. In this case every web developer needs to have a network of people to collaborate with in order to diagnose the problem.