3 ms·

Having worked under a union contract for 13 years (as a member of the Animation Guild), I hope that this suggestion gets taken more seriously -- not over dress

by njloof 10y ago

Having worked under a union contract for 13 years (as a member of the Animation Guild), I hope that this suggestion gets taken more seriously -- not over dress codes, perhaps, but over issues of workplace safety; and that includes the damage done to young tech workers asked to work 80+ hour weeks for months on end at no cost to the employer over a 40 hour week. It's damaging both physically and mentally, and the companies that do it should know better. (Startups where all parties have honest information about the gamble they're taking are an exception -- and startups are typically not the kinds of places that unionize because the process takes longer than the startup lasts.)

syshum 10y ago
>that includes the damage done to young tech workers asked to work 80+ hour weeks for months on end at no cost to the employer over a 40 hour week. That is not really a union issue, what we need is a few tech workers to push for IRS Exemption rules and sue over it, to get some clear established case law on who and who is not exempt from overtime. The IRS and DOL have been woefully derelict in their guidance on this issue, and I personally believe that many of the IT workers that are classified as exempt today should not be.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  The Bush Administration passed a regulation exempting "computer professionals" broadly from overtime pay in 2003. It is really a union issue: the government can't be counted on to have workers' interests at heart when workers aren't the ones running the government. Workers should do it ourselves.
  - serge2k 10y ago
    > exempting "computer professionals" broadly from overtime pay in 2003. I don't understand why this is still a thing. How have we, as a group, not gotten such a horrible law overturned. Oh right, some people think working 60 hours a week is okay. sigh.
    - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
      >I don't understand why this is still a thing. How have we, as a group, not gotten such a horrible law overturned. It's not that loads of people think 60 hours/week is ok. It's that lots of people seem to think there's something immoral and mafia-esque about collective bargaining and organized labor. Labor rights don't get improved because people walk away from bad jobs (there will always be someone sufficiently desperate as to undercut everyone else, even if the employers have to change a bunch of laws to make it happen), and they don't get improved because the government sees just how lovely and moral it would be to improve labor rights. They get improved because workers unite and fight for our collective interests. To my mind, people who don't admit this have a strangely romanticized conception of how business works.
      - serge2k 10y ago
        I get that, but there is a gap between all salaries and promotions are based on seniority and firing a lousy employee is impossible vs. an organization of professionals who will fight for lousy employment laws. You also have wage fixing/anti-poaching agreements that could potentially be more effectively fought. Overly broad non-compete agreements are another obvious target.
  - syshum 10y ago
    >regulation exempting "computer professionals" broadly from overtime pay in 2003. I am aware, I am also aware the "computer professional" is narrowly defined and simply because you work with a computer does not make you a "computer professional" I am aware of several companies that do not classify their employees properly >> Workers should do it ourselves. Workers should by refusing to work those jobs, I myself am Salaried Non-Exempt. I personally disagree with the concept of unions, and find they are often worse over the long term

by njloof 10y ago

syshum 10y ago

>that includes the damage done to young tech workers asked to work 80+ hour weeks for months on end at no cost to the employer over a 40 hour week. That is not really a union issue, what we need is a few tech workers to push for IRS Exemption rules and sue over it, to get some clear established case law on who and who is not exempt from overtime. The IRS and DOL have been woefully derelict in their guidance on this issue, and I personally believe that many of the IT workers that are classified as exempt today should not be.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
The Bush Administration passed a regulation exempting "computer professionals" broadly from overtime pay in 2003. It is really a union issue: the government can't be counted on to have workers' interests at heart when workers aren't the ones running the government. Workers should do it ourselves.
- serge2k 10y ago
  > exempting "computer professionals" broadly from overtime pay in 2003. I don't understand why this is still a thing. How have we, as a group, not gotten such a horrible law overturned. Oh right, some people think working 60 hours a week is okay. sigh.
  - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
    >I don't understand why this is still a thing. How have we, as a group, not gotten such a horrible law overturned. It's not that loads of people think 60 hours/week is ok. It's that lots of people seem to think there's something immoral and mafia-esque about collective bargaining and organized labor. Labor rights don't get improved because people walk away from bad jobs (there will always be someone sufficiently desperate as to undercut everyone else, even if the employers have to change a bunch of laws to make it happen), and they don't get improved because the government sees just how lovely and moral it would be to improve labor rights. They get improved because workers unite and fight for our collective interests. To my mind, people who don't admit this have a strangely romanticized conception of how business works.
    - serge2k 10y ago
      I get that, but there is a gap between all salaries and promotions are based on seniority and firing a lousy employee is impossible vs. an organization of professionals who will fight for lousy employment laws. You also have wage fixing/anti-poaching agreements that could potentially be more effectively fought. Overly broad non-compete agreements are another obvious target.
- syshum 10y ago
  >regulation exempting "computer professionals" broadly from overtime pay in 2003. I am aware, I am also aware the "computer professional" is narrowly defined and simply because you work with a computer does not make you a "computer professional" I am aware of several companies that do not classify their employees properly >> Workers should do it ourselves. Workers should by refusing to work those jobs, I myself am Salaried Non-Exempt. I personally disagree with the concept of unions, and find they are often worse over the long term