3 ms·

>It's millennials asking perfectly reasonable questions about why certain things are the way they are No, it isn't. They never asked about it at all, that was

>It's millennials asking perfectly reasonable questions about why certain things are the way they are No, it isn't. They never asked about it at all, that was very much part of the point the author was making. They signed a petition demanding a change to the dress code. That is absolutely entitlement, and it is beyond naive to believe this is not more common in this generation. The generation demanding everything change so they never have to hear an opinion they disagree with. >like how forcing women to wear heels is a product of patriarchal culture and can drive women out of particular careers (disclaimer: I have no idea whether that was the case here) You do have an idea if you simply read the article. But no, lets try to shoehorn more identity politics in, we can never have enough!

Nullabillity 10y ago
Why keep a policy that you can't motivate?
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  I have no idea what you are asking.
  - KirinDave 10y ago
    What value do restricted "dress codes" have other than as a symbol of authority and an economic burden on employees? These employees didn't have a functional dress code and it didn't seem to be in service of a brand. They were petitioning to wear reasonable footwear. And whole you may shy from such discussions, dress codes disproportionately impact women and transgender people, so it's no surprise that we note that impact. It's also worth noting how quick Americans are to dismiss any collective action as "entitlement" to be derided. It is not a new phenomenon.
    - smsm42 10y ago
      Why wear clothes at all? I mean when it's cold outside, fine, but indoors or in countries with comfortable temperatures... I can get a loin cloth, or like these guys[1] (may be NSFW) you know, hygiene and stuff, but beyond that? That's a cultural thing. We live in a culture. Some parts of the culture pay more attention to stuff we cover ourselves with that others. Maybe in some places what tattoo you are wearing on your cheek is much more important than what cloth you are wearing on your feet, but in many Western workplaces that's how the culture works. Substantiating culture from rational principles is very hard (why is it ok for Western people to eat chicken but weird to eat parrot? Because. Why it's ok to women to wear pants but weird for a man to wear a skirt? Because. Why we use zippers and not codpieces, why we once wore wigs and hats and now we rarely do so? Because!). That doesn't mean culture doesn't exist or it is just stupid (unless you think whole life is stupid - which is a valid approach, but then there's no reason to single out this part of it ;). And for people that probably heard words like "diversity" and "tolerance" every day in the school, it should not be hard to understand the value of not dismissing other's culture as "this is just a stupid prejudice" and not approaching it with the posture of "now I'll show you how to do things properly". If a western person did it to a non-western person, they themselves would call it "cultural imperialism" or something like that. But they did exactly the same and don't even have enough self-reflection to realize that. That's a major failure of their education, and hopefully this life lesson would work to correct it at least partially. > It's also worth noting how quick Americans are to dismiss any collective action as "entitlement" to be derided It is also worth noting how some people think if 10 people do same thing it is somehow better than one people doing the thing - somehow "collective" is better than individual. [1] https://hgwlorenzo.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/namba4.jpg https://hgwlorenzo.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/namba4.jpg
      - KirinDave 10y ago
        Arguments that uncomfortable shoes put on young people is "corporate culture?" They fall a bit flat in the face of, "Could we please wear non-leather footwear that is comfortable since we walk around a lot?" This isn't forcing women out of their hijab. This is letting interns wear sensible footwear and not wear blazers in the summer.
    - MustardTiger 10y ago
      >What value do restricted "dress codes" have other than as a symbol of authority and an economic burden on employees? Why are you asking me this? I have nothing to do with it. I am not talking about dress codes, petitioning is the problem. If you don't like the dress code, try asking why it exists. We have no idea what value it was adding, because the person involved who had absolutely no experience and was there to learn, never bothered to learn. They just created a petition. >dress codes disproportionately impact women and transgender people, so it's no surprise that we note that impact. Again, trying to inject identity politics into everything is disgusting and contemptuous. Quit trying to pull a victim card out to declare yourself special, and thus nobody else can understand the "impact".
      - KirinDave 10y ago
        > I am not talking about dress codes, petitioning is the problem. Heaven forbid people express a mutual desire clearly to their management. Far better to be shot down individually so the manager can control the message to their management. > Again, trying to inject identity politics into everything is disgusting and contemptuous. It is not politics. Brexit was politics. This is societal contracts.
        MustardTiger 10y ago
        >Heaven forbid people express a mutual desire clearly to their management. Far better to be shot down individually so the manager can control the message to their management. No, common etiquette forbids it. A guest given an opportunity is not in a place to make demands, especially without even bothered to ask about what they are demanding first. >It is not politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics
        KirinDave 10y ago
        Interns are employees, not guests. And yeah, I know the term. Another manufactured social conservative term for human rights without saying those words.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

Nullabillity 10y ago

Why keep a policy that you can't motivate?

MustardTiger 10y ago
I have no idea what you are asking.
- KirinDave 10y ago
  What value do restricted "dress codes" have other than as a symbol of authority and an economic burden on employees? These employees didn't have a functional dress code and it didn't seem to be in service of a brand. They were petitioning to wear reasonable footwear. And whole you may shy from such discussions, dress codes disproportionately impact women and transgender people, so it's no surprise that we note that impact. It's also worth noting how quick Americans are to dismiss any collective action as "entitlement" to be derided. It is not a new phenomenon.
  - smsm42 10y ago
    Why wear clothes at all? I mean when it's cold outside, fine, but indoors or in countries with comfortable temperatures... I can get a loin cloth, or like these guys[1] (may be NSFW) you know, hygiene and stuff, but beyond that? That's a cultural thing. We live in a culture. Some parts of the culture pay more attention to stuff we cover ourselves with that others. Maybe in some places what tattoo you are wearing on your cheek is much more important than what cloth you are wearing on your feet, but in many Western workplaces that's how the culture works. Substantiating culture from rational principles is very hard (why is it ok for Western people to eat chicken but weird to eat parrot? Because. Why it's ok to women to wear pants but weird for a man to wear a skirt? Because. Why we use zippers and not codpieces, why we once wore wigs and hats and now we rarely do so? Because!). That doesn't mean culture doesn't exist or it is just stupid (unless you think whole life is stupid - which is a valid approach, but then there's no reason to single out this part of it ;). And for people that probably heard words like "diversity" and "tolerance" every day in the school, it should not be hard to understand the value of not dismissing other's culture as "this is just a stupid prejudice" and not approaching it with the posture of "now I'll show you how to do things properly". If a western person did it to a non-western person, they themselves would call it "cultural imperialism" or something like that. But they did exactly the same and don't even have enough self-reflection to realize that. That's a major failure of their education, and hopefully this life lesson would work to correct it at least partially. > It's also worth noting how quick Americans are to dismiss any collective action as "entitlement" to be derided It is also worth noting how some people think if 10 people do same thing it is somehow better than one people doing the thing - somehow "collective" is better than individual. [1] https://hgwlorenzo.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/namba4.jpg https://hgwlorenzo.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/namba4.jpg
    - KirinDave 10y ago
      Arguments that uncomfortable shoes put on young people is "corporate culture?" They fall a bit flat in the face of, "Could we please wear non-leather footwear that is comfortable since we walk around a lot?" This isn't forcing women out of their hijab. This is letting interns wear sensible footwear and not wear blazers in the summer.
  - MustardTiger 10y ago
    >What value do restricted "dress codes" have other than as a symbol of authority and an economic burden on employees? Why are you asking me this? I have nothing to do with it. I am not talking about dress codes, petitioning is the problem. If you don't like the dress code, try asking why it exists. We have no idea what value it was adding, because the person involved who had absolutely no experience and was there to learn, never bothered to learn. They just created a petition. >dress codes disproportionately impact women and transgender people, so it's no surprise that we note that impact. Again, trying to inject identity politics into everything is disgusting and contemptuous. Quit trying to pull a victim card out to declare yourself special, and thus nobody else can understand the "impact".
    - KirinDave 10y ago
      > I am not talking about dress codes, petitioning is the problem. Heaven forbid people express a mutual desire clearly to their management. Far better to be shot down individually so the manager can control the message to their management. > Again, trying to inject identity politics into everything is disgusting and contemptuous. It is not politics. Brexit was politics. This is societal contracts.
      - MustardTiger 10y ago
        >Heaven forbid people express a mutual desire clearly to their management. Far better to be shot down individually so the manager can control the message to their management. No, common etiquette forbids it. A guest given an opportunity is not in a place to make demands, especially without even bothered to ask about what they are demanding first. >It is not politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics
        KirinDave 10y ago
        Interns are employees, not guests. And yeah, I know the term. Another manufactured social conservative term for human rights without saying those words.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]