5 ms·

You have to consider that here in a lot of sud-west EU states 3000e/month allow you to live VERY GOOD even in the main cities. Cost of life here is extremly low

by yulaow 10y ago

You have to consider that here in a lot of sud-west EU states 3000e/month allow you to live VERY GOOD even in the main cities. Cost of life here is extremly low compared to that of SV.

gleenn 10y ago
I think that's very true, but it still seems a little crazy that you're doing the same work and getting paid 20-25% of a SV job.
- yulaow 10y ago
  It depends also on how many hours do you work. Here is pretty common you never go over 38hours week, and if you have to you are compensated very well (1.5~2.5 x normal hour rate). For what I read (but probably there is a little bias in it) in SV there is a partially workcentered style of life when you have to work often >60h with a salaried contract (that, btw, here in EU they do not exist... you are paid with an explicit amount of hours per week in your contract). For example reading the book of Elon Musk it seems he asks constantly for 80/90h/w working also on the weekend. Consider also that. Oh and also you have not to pay anything for healtcare. Basically, as other have already said, if you manage to live in Italy-France-Spain-Portugal-Germany and you are capable to get a remote work for a company in US you will have a incredibly high level of life here.
  - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
    Where in Spain you rarely go over 38hr/week or will get decently paid those extra? Man, things must have changed for good in the last 5 years.
  - pkaye 10y ago
    It is not quite bad as it may seen in SV. Most people work 8am to 5pm as gauged by the traffic peak periods. Some start earlier or later but most work around 40 hours. Rarely do you see much traffic or people at work on the weekends. There are certainly places where people work like long hours but one doesn't have to work in those places. There are plenty of other options.
charlesdm 10y ago
Why make €3,000 when you can easily make €6,000 or €8,000 doing the same work? Unlike a lawyer or a doctor, software engineering can easily be "exported" and done from anywhere in the world. You just need to be _good_.
- yulaow 10y ago
  I agree. I was just saying that, anyway, with 3000e/m you are not living a bad life, you are instead pretty """rich""" for the standars here. Indeed, if you can, better improve it.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
sergiosgc 10y ago
Be mindful that these are pre tax numbers. Add in income tax and social security, and you may chop 50% of that salary off.
hibikir 10y ago
Forget Silicon Valley: It's gotten stupid expensive. The rest of the US, however, has not. I lived in Spain, and moved to the middle of the US, to a city that is about the same size as Valencia: Here, A 4 bedroom house can be had for $200K. Groceries are often cheaper here. Cars are WAY cheaper here, barring a few EU luxury brands. My mother's electricity bill, in an apartment less than half the size of my house, is double mine, so the cost of living is in no way higher than in Spain. The difference is that someone right out of school will make 60K. A completely average senior dev makes 100K. The last time I had local work I had a long term hourly contract, 40/week average, that paid $125 an hour, so 20K a month. Today I make more. So in Spain you have a cost of living that is not really any better, far higher taxes, and pay that would be seen as pretty low for a recent college graduate. Every time I visit, and people ask me why I don't come back, I just go through the economics, and Spaniards quickly agree that I'd have to be insane to come back.

by yulaow 10y ago

You have to consider that here in a lot of sud-west EU states 3000e/month allow you to live VERY GOOD even in the main cities. Cost of life here is extremly low compared to that of SV.

gleenn 10y ago

I think that's very true, but it still seems a little crazy that you're doing the same work and getting paid 20-25% of a SV job.

yulaow 10y ago
It depends also on how many hours do you work. Here is pretty common you never go over 38hours week, and if you have to you are compensated very well (1.5~2.5 x normal hour rate). For what I read (but probably there is a little bias in it) in SV there is a partially workcentered style of life when you have to work often >60h with a salaried contract (that, btw, here in EU they do not exist... you are paid with an explicit amount of hours per week in your contract). For example reading the book of Elon Musk it seems he asks constantly for 80/90h/w working also on the weekend. Consider also that. Oh and also you have not to pay anything for healtcare. Basically, as other have already said, if you manage to live in Italy-France-Spain-Portugal-Germany and you are capable to get a remote work for a company in US you will have a incredibly high level of life here.
- NetStrikeForce 10y ago
  Where in Spain you rarely go over 38hr/week or will get decently paid those extra? Man, things must have changed for good in the last 5 years.
- pkaye 10y ago
  It is not quite bad as it may seen in SV. Most people work 8am to 5pm as gauged by the traffic peak periods. Some start earlier or later but most work around 40 hours. Rarely do you see much traffic or people at work on the weekends. There are certainly places where people work like long hours but one doesn't have to work in those places. There are plenty of other options.

charlesdm 10y ago

Why make €3,000 when you can easily make €6,000 or €8,000 doing the same work? Unlike a lawyer or a doctor, software engineering can easily be "exported" and done from anywhere in the world. You just need to be _good_.

yulaow 10y ago
I agree. I was just saying that, anyway, with 3000e/m you are not living a bad life, you are instead pretty """rich""" for the standars here. Indeed, if you can, better improve it.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

sergiosgc 10y ago

Be mindful that these are pre tax numbers. Add in income tax and social security, and you may chop 50% of that salary off.

hibikir 10y ago

Forget Silicon Valley: It's gotten stupid expensive. The rest of the US, however, has not. I lived in Spain, and moved to the middle of the US, to a city that is about the same size as Valencia: Here, A 4 bedroom house can be had for $200K. Groceries are often cheaper here. Cars are WAY cheaper here, barring a few EU luxury brands. My mother's electricity bill, in an apartment less than half the size of my house, is double mine, so the cost of living is in no way higher than in Spain. The difference is that someone right out of school will make 60K. A completely average senior dev makes 100K. The last time I had local work I had a long term hourly contract, 40/week average, that paid $125 an hour, so 20K a month. Today I make more. So in Spain you have a cost of living that is not really any better, far higher taxes, and pay that would be seen as pretty low for a recent college graduate. Every time I visit, and people ask me why I don't come back, I just go through the economics, and Spaniards quickly agree that I'd have to be insane to come back.