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Ordinarily The Daily WTF is good for a chuckle, but this was actually insightful. I find that it applies to the HN user base, since we're (or we think we are) t

Ordinarily The Daily WTF is good for a chuckle, but this was actually insightful. I find that it applies to the HN user base, since we're (or we think we are) the employees most likely to "evaporate" and leave the job security types behind.

hackoder 17y ago
I lost a job in the manner he described - told them I was looking elsewhere, but I'd be more than happy to train my replacement. I did it without first finding work and I thought I was doing them a favor by letting them know as soon as I was sure of leaving so their projects wouldn't be affected. I was laid off due to 'lack of budget' within the week. That taught me. This is the first time I've read something which makes complete sense to me and helps get rid of the "ifs and buts" from my head (I still am looking for work). My ideas would never have been implemented, the organization was too resistant to change. The curve makes sense- it was fun for a while, but after "getting it all", the daily monotony would have killed me. At the same time other employees came in, did their work, and went home. They felt the whole system was very rigid, but they were ok with tolerating it. After quitting I've often found myself wondering if its something in my head that prevented me from "sticking it out". This post makes some good sense and I hope more employers read it.
- eru 17y ago
  We are looking to expand our team at the moment. I'll send you an email with more details. I hope you like it.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- ShabbyDoo 17y ago
  I presume, since your employer didn't try to fire you for insubordination or something silly, that you were able to collect unemployment? They weren't as bad as they could have been! The signal given to other employees will hurt them in the long-term. Nobody will ever let on that they might be thinking about leaving. "Why did Bob, who had just begun to lead the new project, decide to take some other job? Wow, what a jerk!"
illumin8 17y ago
I thought it was a great article, but how do you actually apply the "up or out" principle in the real world? The thing I have found is that in most work environments the good engineers accomplish great things, get burned out, then leave, while the bad engineers become exceptionally good at playing political games. You know, the same engineers that have appalling work performance are the ones that are ass-kissing all day long, forming alliances, playing the office politics game like they are desperate to keep from getting voted off a reality TV show. The sad thing is, it actually works in most companies. The really unqualified employees will never be let go, or even disciplined, because they are "friends" with the management. I think this creates a low morale for everyone. In some companies, the really talented engineers just quit because they get too frustrated with the general lack of motivation and laziness of the "political" engineers, and either drop out or burn out, knowing full well that the "political" engineer will probably be promoted to become their superior, even though they are grossly incompetent at their present job. How do you solve this problem?
- anonjon 17y ago
  I think that's the point about the culture of quitting. If you have a culture where employees are expected to move on after a few years, the people who are playing politics and trying to get entrenched for job security are really easy to pick out. (They've been there 10 years while the average stay is maybe 3 or 4). No amount of ass kissing will save you from being the weird guy who can't move on.
- count 17y ago
  Our company gives every employee a 'projected promotion date', from Day 1. If you don't meet your promotion date (and that is adjusted based on how the economy and the company as a whole are doing, etc. - it's not set in stone), then you are asked to leave. Plain and simple. Up, or Out. There is no settling into a role as a mediocre mid level manager - the only role you can settle into is that of partner (which requires $millions of dollars in sales and revenue per year, so you can't exactly slouch at that either). It works AMAZINGLY well at keeping/attracting awesome talent. I've yet to meet anybody 'below average' or really even 'average' from a motivation/kick ass perspective. The culture is refreshingly honest and progressive.

hackoder 17y ago

I lost a job in the manner he described - told them I was looking elsewhere, but I'd be more than happy to train my replacement. I did it without first finding work and I thought I was doing them a favor by letting them know as soon as I was sure of leaving so their projects wouldn't be affected. I was laid off due to 'lack of budget' within the week. That taught me. This is the first time I've read something which makes complete sense to me and helps get rid of the "ifs and buts" from my head (I still am looking for work). My ideas would never have been implemented, the organization was too resistant to change. The curve makes sense- it was fun for a while, but after "getting it all", the daily monotony would have killed me. At the same time other employees came in, did their work, and went home. They felt the whole system was very rigid, but they were ok with tolerating it. After quitting I've often found myself wondering if its something in my head that prevented me from "sticking it out". This post makes some good sense and I hope more employers read it.

eru 17y ago
We are looking to expand our team at the moment. I'll send you an email with more details. I hope you like it.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
ShabbyDoo 17y ago
I presume, since your employer didn't try to fire you for insubordination or something silly, that you were able to collect unemployment? They weren't as bad as they could have been! The signal given to other employees will hurt them in the long-term. Nobody will ever let on that they might be thinking about leaving. "Why did Bob, who had just begun to lead the new project, decide to take some other job? Wow, what a jerk!"

illumin8 17y ago

I thought it was a great article, but how do you actually apply the "up or out" principle in the real world? The thing I have found is that in most work environments the good engineers accomplish great things, get burned out, then leave, while the bad engineers become exceptionally good at playing political games. You know, the same engineers that have appalling work performance are the ones that are ass-kissing all day long, forming alliances, playing the office politics game like they are desperate to keep from getting voted off a reality TV show. The sad thing is, it actually works in most companies. The really unqualified employees will never be let go, or even disciplined, because they are "friends" with the management. I think this creates a low morale for everyone. In some companies, the really talented engineers just quit because they get too frustrated with the general lack of motivation and laziness of the "political" engineers, and either drop out or burn out, knowing full well that the "political" engineer will probably be promoted to become their superior, even though they are grossly incompetent at their present job. How do you solve this problem?

anonjon 17y ago
I think that's the point about the culture of quitting. If you have a culture where employees are expected to move on after a few years, the people who are playing politics and trying to get entrenched for job security are really easy to pick out. (They've been there 10 years while the average stay is maybe 3 or 4). No amount of ass kissing will save you from being the weird guy who can't move on.
count 17y ago
Our company gives every employee a 'projected promotion date', from Day 1. If you don't meet your promotion date (and that is adjusted based on how the economy and the company as a whole are doing, etc. - it's not set in stone), then you are asked to leave. Plain and simple. Up, or Out. There is no settling into a role as a mediocre mid level manager - the only role you can settle into is that of partner (which requires $millions of dollars in sales and revenue per year, so you can't exactly slouch at that either). It works AMAZINGLY well at keeping/attracting awesome talent. I've yet to meet anybody 'below average' or really even 'average' from a motivation/kick ass perspective. The culture is refreshingly honest and progressive.