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"Don’t give the first number in your salary negotiation." Ugh, I get so tired of seeing this. I only see a few situations where this is true: 1) You really ha

by dharmon 10y ago

"Don’t give the first number in your salary negotiation." Ugh, I get so tired of seeing this. I only see a few situations where this is true: 1) You really have no idea what someone in your position in your area makes. 2) You have no "best alternative", i.e., you really need this job and must take any number they give you. For everybody else, anchor, and anchor high. You can both prepare the recruiter in advance that you will be expensive and couch the actual number in terms where it's clear you aren't threatening to walk if you don't get it. Research has shown that anchors don't depend on any context to the actual issue at hand, so you just want to state an incredibly large number in some way, doesn't have to as direct as, "I want $2.5M / year in total comp from your company." Hell, you should want them to chuckle a little at your number. If they anchor low on you, your only option is to reset hard. You have to make it abundantly clear that the number is unacceptable. The less desperate you are for the job, the harder you should rebuff a low number, ideally with a "I wish I had known that's where you were thinking, we could have saved everyone a lot of time." Negotiating is a game. Have fun with it.

chc 10y ago
The point is that if you give a number first, there is now an upper bound on your final salary but no established lower bound. If they give a number first, there is now a lower bound on your salary but no established upper bound. A situation where your compensation can only go up is seen as more advantageous than one where your compensation can only go down.
- the_cat_kittles 10y ago
  i think the problem comes if they put out a lower bound that is way too low, then there is no way for them to accept a much higher salary without looking stupid, so they wont.
- whamlastxmas 10y ago
  It's a trade off. If you anchor high you're saving yourself time from the majority of companies that try to underpay you. If you don't anchor, you risk getting your time wasted but eliminate the risk not knowing what you're worth. If you are a highly in-demand, already highly-paid developer, it is likely in your best interest to anchor high. If you are a junior level and trying to get a middle-level role, it's probably better to not anchor.
  - bbcbasic 10y ago
    Lead qualification and research will help save you wasting time without showing your hand first.
mijustin 10y ago
Patio11's podcast episode on this is quite good. Transcript here: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2016/06/03/kalzumeus-podcast-episode-12-salary-negotiation-with-josh-doody/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2016/06/03/kalzumeus-podcast-episod... Patrick's comment is poignant: "If you give a number in response to this question, that’s going to immediately cap your negotiator range. If you say “My current salary is 90,” then they know that anything above 90 is an improvement to you. Even if they would have been willing to pay, let’s say 110 to the right candidate for this position, they’re probably going to offer you 95 and then walk it up to 98, 100." The employer is incentivized to pay you as little as they can. We know that many employers pay different people doing the same job different salaries. If you can get them to give their number first, it seems (to me) you're in a much stronger position.
- JoshDoody 10y ago
  You beat me to this one with a great answer. I would only add that a big reason not to name a number is that you're guessing at what they might be willing to pay. So even if your plan is to anchor high, you're guessing and you might miss. You might THINK you're anchoring high when you're actually guessing a number that's relatively low in the range of salaries they're willing to pay. You gain a lot of information by waiting for them to make an offer.
  - dharmon 10y ago
    When I say anchor high I don't mean X + $25k. I mean 2X or 3X.
- dharmon 10y ago
  Yes, but this also works in reverse. Wouldn't you much rather the anchor be in your hands? You always say a crazy high number, but you can couch it in terms where its not necessarily the number you are asking for. Anchors work like that. To make this concrete, if I was a level 5 engineer and I knew total comp was around $300k in the Bay Area, I may say something like, "Well, I have been considering getting back into consulting where I know I can get at least $50k / month, but let's see where we can get here at [tech company]." Note I wasn't asking for $600k / year, and didn't even say I made that now, I just floated it out there. Boom. Anchor. Yes, you will get either a chuckle or a "Weeeeeeell" hem-haw. Doesn't matter. Anchor has been set. Most engineers have internal blocks. They don't believe they are worth $600k / year. Better bet your ass MBAs and sales guys do. And we wonder why they make so much more than us?

by dharmon 10y ago

chc 10y ago

The point is that if you give a number first, there is now an upper bound on your final salary but no established lower bound. If they give a number first, there is now a lower bound on your salary but no established upper bound. A situation where your compensation can only go up is seen as more advantageous than one where your compensation can only go down.

the_cat_kittles 10y ago
i think the problem comes if they put out a lower bound that is way too low, then there is no way for them to accept a much higher salary without looking stupid, so they wont.
whamlastxmas 10y ago
It's a trade off. If you anchor high you're saving yourself time from the majority of companies that try to underpay you. If you don't anchor, you risk getting your time wasted but eliminate the risk not knowing what you're worth. If you are a highly in-demand, already highly-paid developer, it is likely in your best interest to anchor high. If you are a junior level and trying to get a middle-level role, it's probably better to not anchor.
- bbcbasic 10y ago
  Lead qualification and research will help save you wasting time without showing your hand first.

mijustin 10y ago

Patio11's podcast episode on this is quite good. Transcript here: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2016/06/03/kalzumeus-podcast-episode-12-salary-negotiation-with-josh-doody/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2016/06/03/kalzumeus-podcast-episod... Patrick's comment is poignant: "If you give a number in response to this question, that’s going to immediately cap your negotiator range. If you say “My current salary is 90,” then they know that anything above 90 is an improvement to you. Even if they would have been willing to pay, let’s say 110 to the right candidate for this position, they’re probably going to offer you 95 and then walk it up to 98, 100." The employer is incentivized to pay you as little as they can. We know that many employers pay different people doing the same job different salaries. If you can get them to give their number first, it seems (to me) you're in a much stronger position.

JoshDoody 10y ago
You beat me to this one with a great answer. I would only add that a big reason not to name a number is that you're guessing at what they might be willing to pay. So even if your plan is to anchor high, you're guessing and you might miss. You might THINK you're anchoring high when you're actually guessing a number that's relatively low in the range of salaries they're willing to pay. You gain a lot of information by waiting for them to make an offer.
- dharmon 10y ago
  When I say anchor high I don't mean X + $25k. I mean 2X or 3X.
dharmon 10y ago
Yes, but this also works in reverse. Wouldn't you much rather the anchor be in your hands? You always say a crazy high number, but you can couch it in terms where its not necessarily the number you are asking for. Anchors work like that. To make this concrete, if I was a level 5 engineer and I knew total comp was around $300k in the Bay Area, I may say something like, "Well, I have been considering getting back into consulting where I know I can get at least $50k / month, but let's see where we can get here at [tech company]." Note I wasn't asking for $600k / year, and didn't even say I made that now, I just floated it out there. Boom. Anchor. Yes, you will get either a chuckle or a "Weeeeeeell" hem-haw. Doesn't matter. Anchor has been set. Most engineers have internal blocks. They don't believe they are worth $600k / year. Better bet your ass MBAs and sales guys do. And we wonder why they make so much more than us?