5 ms·

> But when Sun was arrested in 2007 for a $93,000 gambling debt owed to MGM, she vowed revenge What? How is that legal?

objclxt 10y ago
As you might expect, laws around casino debt in Nevada heavily favour the casinos: https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2014/dec/3/debtors-prisons-prevail-las-vegas-thanks-prosecutors-and-casino-markers-law/ https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2014/dec/3/debtors-pris...
- CyberDildonics 10y ago
  Loan someone money, arrest them when they can't pay. Workin' hard, makin' bucks.
downandout 10y ago
Under Nevada law, "markers" - the instrument one signs to draw against a casino credit line - are considered checks. They even imprint your checking account information on them. About a month after your trip, the casino will send you a bill for all outstanding markers. If you fail to pay it, they simply deposit the markers you signed into their bank (remember, they have your checking account information imprinted on them). If they bounce, they are treated and prosecuted as if you had simply written a bad check. Unsurprisingly, this is fraught with conflicts of interest, made worse by the fact that Nevada law entitles the DA's office to a percentage of anything it collects on behalf of the casinos. They are effectively a debt collector that can throw you in jail.
Waterluvian 10y ago
Not legal in Canada. Debt isn't a criminal offense. I don't think they can arrest you. But maybe I'm confusing it for: they can't throw you in jail for debts.
- criddell 10y ago
  The way the loan is structured, it's essentially a cheque. If you can be arrested for bouncing cheques, then you can be arrested for not paying the casinos.
- MOARDONGZPLZ 10y ago
  It's also illegal in the US to jail someone for debts. The way they get around this in Nevada is to jail you for writing bad checks, which is fraud. THat is to say: intentionally writing a check you know will bounce is fraud and a crime, but in the event that a check you wrote bounces, it's hard to prove that you didn't know the check would bounce when you wrote it. So it's not really debtor's prison, but almost a loophole to create a debtor's prison.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    "Didn't know the check would bounce" implies you, what, don't know how to add up a list of numbers? Its fair to say a bounced check means bad faith.
    - MOARDONGZPLZ 10y ago
      Here are some examples where it wouldn't mean bad faith, and I'm pretty sure the majority of the time a bad check would NOT indicate bad faith: I wrote a check, but I was changing direct deposit accounts at my employer to a new account. I transposed my account number, my paycheck didn't get deposited, my check bounced. Oops! I completely forgot that I wrote a check earlier in the week. I write the second check after looking at my bank account balance which says I should be able to write the second check. The first check then comes through, the second check bounces. Oops! My landlord usually cashes my rent checks on the 3rd. This month he was out of town so didn't get around to cashing it until the 10th. I checked my balance on the 9th and assuming my rent check had been cashed as usual, that I had enough to write the second check. By the time the second check is cashed, there is no money in my account so it bounces. Oops! Didn't mean to write a check that would bounce in any of those (imaginary) situations. No intent to write a bad check means no crime of fraud, as fraud requires specific intent to defraud.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Spooky23 10y ago
Gambling is a scummy business. One of the reasons why I always eye roll when some sports nerd is passionately arguing about how allowing sports books is some sort of expression of freedom.

As you might expect, laws around casino debt in Nevada heavily favour the casinos: https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2014/dec/3/debtors-prisons-prevail-las-vegas-thanks-prosecutors-and-casino-markers-law/ https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2014/dec/3/debtors-pris...

CyberDildonics 10y ago
Loan someone money, arrest them when they can't pay. Workin' hard, makin' bucks.

downandout 10y ago

Under Nevada law, "markers" - the instrument one signs to draw against a casino credit line - are considered checks. They even imprint your checking account information on them. About a month after your trip, the casino will send you a bill for all outstanding markers. If you fail to pay it, they simply deposit the markers you signed into their bank (remember, they have your checking account information imprinted on them). If they bounce, they are treated and prosecuted as if you had simply written a bad check. Unsurprisingly, this is fraught with conflicts of interest, made worse by the fact that Nevada law entitles the DA's office to a percentage of anything it collects on behalf of the casinos. They are effectively a debt collector that can throw you in jail.

Waterluvian 10y ago

Not legal in Canada. Debt isn't a criminal offense. I don't think they can arrest you. But maybe I'm confusing it for: they can't throw you in jail for debts.

criddell 10y ago
The way the loan is structured, it's essentially a cheque. If you can be arrested for bouncing cheques, then you can be arrested for not paying the casinos.
MOARDONGZPLZ 10y ago
It's also illegal in the US to jail someone for debts. The way they get around this in Nevada is to jail you for writing bad checks, which is fraud. THat is to say: intentionally writing a check you know will bounce is fraud and a crime, but in the event that a check you wrote bounces, it's hard to prove that you didn't know the check would bounce when you wrote it. So it's not really debtor's prison, but almost a loophole to create a debtor's prison.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  "Didn't know the check would bounce" implies you, what, don't know how to add up a list of numbers? Its fair to say a bounced check means bad faith.
  - MOARDONGZPLZ 10y ago
    Here are some examples where it wouldn't mean bad faith, and I'm pretty sure the majority of the time a bad check would NOT indicate bad faith: I wrote a check, but I was changing direct deposit accounts at my employer to a new account. I transposed my account number, my paycheck didn't get deposited, my check bounced. Oops! I completely forgot that I wrote a check earlier in the week. I write the second check after looking at my bank account balance which says I should be able to write the second check. The first check then comes through, the second check bounces. Oops! My landlord usually cashes my rent checks on the 3rd. This month he was out of town so didn't get around to cashing it until the 10th. I checked my balance on the 9th and assuming my rent check had been cashed as usual, that I had enough to write the second check. By the time the second check is cashed, there is no money in my account so it bounces. Oops! Didn't mean to write a check that would bounce in any of those (imaginary) situations. No intent to write a bad check means no crime of fraud, as fraud requires specific intent to defraud.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Spooky23 10y ago

Gambling is a scummy business. One of the reasons why I always eye roll when some sports nerd is passionately arguing about how allowing sports books is some sort of expression of freedom.