4 ms·

This is ridiculous. Racial quotas in American universities select against Chinese people in favour of on average less-capable whites. One of the more noxious ex

This is ridiculous. Racial quotas in American universities select against Chinese people in favour of on average less-capable whites. One of the more noxious examples of modern racism is the fact that the ivies have much higher standards for Asain students than for any other race. Basicly a reply of the 1930s Jewish quotas.

Retric 10y ago
Considering performance after acceptance it's actually reasonable. The best performing group at most Ivy's is poor white students. If anything they are far to open to questionable metrics. PS: Rich white students tend to do far worse at school, but look better at admittance and do better after graduation.
- kartD 10y ago
  Any references you have on this?
  - Retric 10y ago
    Having trouble locating sources, I heard it from a collage professors. But, from what I recall it works something like this. Poor students are vastly less likely to have motivated parents that push and pay for activity's to look good on collage applications. If test prep can add 100 points to a standardized test and two students both have the same score but only one did test prep then the other likely has higher innate intelligence. After the first year innate intelligence makes up a larger role than pre-collage preparations for students motivated enough to get into an Ivy. After school social networks play a larger roll in success than small gaps in innate intelligence. Richer students tend to form more valuable social networks.
    - kartD 10y ago
      While I can't agree/disagree with you points due to the lack of evidence, I was curious to see who did best at Ivies. I felt it would be Indians/Americans of Indian origin. Probably biased because I fall into that category :P
    - projectramo 10y ago
      So the professor could be just as biased. You can justify any bias in such an ad-hoc manner. Rich students might to better because they had better preparation. (Which I had heard but I discount in the absence of evidence.)
      - Retric 10y ago
        Some subjects like math are less subjective. The gentleman's C is an old concept with a range of meanings. But, there has been a long history of students who don't really need to learn anything at collage. However, they greatly benefit from connecting to their peers.
        projectramo 10y ago
        That seems like a non-sequitor. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough but I was saying you are making your claims without any data, but you were relying on the personal observations of a professor.
adiabatty 10y ago
https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/78Q19/index.xml?section=newsreleases https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/78Q19/ind... Espenshade and Chung found that African-American and Hispanic applicants would see their acceptance rates go down noticeably if affirmative action were ended: > According to the study, without affirmative action the acceptance rate for African-American candidates likely would fall nearly two-thirds, from 33.7 percent to 12.2 percent, while the acceptance rate for Hispanic applicants likely would be cut in half, from 26.8 percent to 12.9 percent. White students' numbers wouldn't be affected much, but 4/5s of the "missing" African-American and Hispanic students would be "replaced" by Asian students: > Removing consideration of race would have little effect on white students, the report concludes, as their acceptance rate would rise by merely 0.5 percentage points. Espenshade noted that when one group loses ground, another has to gain -- in this case it would be Asian applicants. Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in the admitted class not taken by African-American and Hispanic students, with an acceptance rate rising from nearly 18 percent to more than 23 percent. Typically, many more Asian students apply to elite schools than other underrepresented minorities. The study also found that although athletes and legacy applicants are predominantly white, their numbers are so small that their admissions do little to displace minority applicants.
- Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago
  >Espenshade and Chung found that African-American and Hispanic applicants would see their acceptance rates go down noticeably if affirmative action were ended I care about fostering merit more than equality of outcome. Lowing standards for emotional reasons isn't something I care about, or even think is moral.

Retric 10y ago

Considering performance after acceptance it's actually reasonable. The best performing group at most Ivy's is poor white students. If anything they are far to open to questionable metrics. PS: Rich white students tend to do far worse at school, but look better at admittance and do better after graduation.

kartD 10y ago
Any references you have on this?
- Retric 10y ago
  Having trouble locating sources, I heard it from a collage professors. But, from what I recall it works something like this. Poor students are vastly less likely to have motivated parents that push and pay for activity's to look good on collage applications. If test prep can add 100 points to a standardized test and two students both have the same score but only one did test prep then the other likely has higher innate intelligence. After the first year innate intelligence makes up a larger role than pre-collage preparations for students motivated enough to get into an Ivy. After school social networks play a larger roll in success than small gaps in innate intelligence. Richer students tend to form more valuable social networks.
  - kartD 10y ago
    While I can't agree/disagree with you points due to the lack of evidence, I was curious to see who did best at Ivies. I felt it would be Indians/Americans of Indian origin. Probably biased because I fall into that category :P
  - projectramo 10y ago
    So the professor could be just as biased. You can justify any bias in such an ad-hoc manner. Rich students might to better because they had better preparation. (Which I had heard but I discount in the absence of evidence.)
    - Retric 10y ago
      Some subjects like math are less subjective. The gentleman's C is an old concept with a range of meanings. But, there has been a long history of students who don't really need to learn anything at collage. However, they greatly benefit from connecting to their peers.
      - projectramo 10y ago
        That seems like a non-sequitor. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough but I was saying you are making your claims without any data, but you were relying on the personal observations of a professor.

adiabatty 10y ago

https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/78Q19/index.xml?section=newsreleases https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/78Q19/ind... Espenshade and Chung found that African-American and Hispanic applicants would see their acceptance rates go down noticeably if affirmative action were ended: > According to the study, without affirmative action the acceptance rate for African-American candidates likely would fall nearly two-thirds, from 33.7 percent to 12.2 percent, while the acceptance rate for Hispanic applicants likely would be cut in half, from 26.8 percent to 12.9 percent. White students' numbers wouldn't be affected much, but 4/5s of the "missing" African-American and Hispanic students would be "replaced" by Asian students: > Removing consideration of race would have little effect on white students, the report concludes, as their acceptance rate would rise by merely 0.5 percentage points. Espenshade noted that when one group loses ground, another has to gain -- in this case it would be Asian applicants. Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in the admitted class not taken by African-American and Hispanic students, with an acceptance rate rising from nearly 18 percent to more than 23 percent. Typically, many more Asian students apply to elite schools than other underrepresented minorities. The study also found that although athletes and legacy applicants are predominantly white, their numbers are so small that their admissions do little to displace minority applicants.

Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago
>Espenshade and Chung found that African-American and Hispanic applicants would see their acceptance rates go down noticeably if affirmative action were ended I care about fostering merit more than equality of outcome. Lowing standards for emotional reasons isn't something I care about, or even think is moral.