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What we could do it triple the cost for each Chinese, and give two Americans citizens a free ride. Does socialism only work one way? Right->Left? This articl

by o0-0o 10y ago

What we could do it triple the cost for each Chinese, and give two Americans citizens a free ride. Does socialism only work one way? Right->Left? This article ignore a few opinions/facts: 1. Chinese are taught the US is their enemy, and that they should come here to learn our strenghts and weaknesses and take them back to China. 2. Chinese poeple have a history of stealing intellectual property through universities and everywhere else. The lack of moral and ethical judgement is stunning and sad. 3. Chinese have manipulated their currency including tieing it do the dollar, which is on par with just printing fake money for your citizens. Therefore citizens are now 'new rich', and can afford to buy what hard-working citizens of other countries can't because their countries don't manipulate their currencies. 4. US lets in anyone willing to pay in cash, mostly. Anchor babies, investment citizenship, expedited services for the wealthy, etc. 5. US has race quotas as a legal precendent, where the universities can set the amount of Asians, etc that are accepted, regardless of qualifications. Not up to par? Who cares, let them in, they got the cash... 6. US has the best colleges in the world, and has for some time. Do you think the Chinese want to study in Tibet?

Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago
This is ridiculous. Racial quotas in American universities select against Chinese people in favour of on average less-capable whites. One of the more noxious examples of modern racism is the fact that the ivies have much higher standards for Asain students than for any other race. Basicly a reply of the 1930s Jewish quotas.
- Retric 10y ago
  Considering performance after acceptance it's actually reasonable. The best performing group at most Ivy's is poor white students. If anything they are far to open to questionable metrics. PS: Rich white students tend to do far worse at school, but look better at admittance and do better after graduation.
  - kartD 10y ago
    Any references you have on this?
    - Retric 10y ago
      Having trouble locating sources, I heard it from a collage professors. But, from what I recall it works something like this. Poor students are vastly less likely to have motivated parents that push and pay for activity's to look good on collage applications. If test prep can add 100 points to a standardized test and two students both have the same score but only one did test prep then the other likely has higher innate intelligence. After the first year innate intelligence makes up a larger role than pre-collage preparations for students motivated enough to get into an Ivy. After school social networks play a larger roll in success than small gaps in innate intelligence. Richer students tend to form more valuable social networks.
      - kartD 10y ago
        While I can't agree/disagree with you points due to the lack of evidence, I was curious to see who did best at Ivies. I felt it would be Indians/Americans of Indian origin. Probably biased because I fall into that category :P
      - projectramo 10y ago
        So the professor could be just as biased. You can justify any bias in such an ad-hoc manner. Rich students might to better because they had better preparation. (Which I had heard but I discount in the absence of evidence.)
        Retric 10y ago
        Some subjects like math are less subjective. The gentleman's C is an old concept with a range of meanings. But, there has been a long history of students who don't really need to learn anything at collage. However, they greatly benefit from connecting to their peers.
- adiabatty 10y ago
  https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/78Q19/index.xml?section=newsreleases https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/78Q19/ind... Espenshade and Chung found that African-American and Hispanic applicants would see their acceptance rates go down noticeably if affirmative action were ended: > According to the study, without affirmative action the acceptance rate for African-American candidates likely would fall nearly two-thirds, from 33.7 percent to 12.2 percent, while the acceptance rate for Hispanic applicants likely would be cut in half, from 26.8 percent to 12.9 percent. White students' numbers wouldn't be affected much, but 4/5s of the "missing" African-American and Hispanic students would be "replaced" by Asian students: > Removing consideration of race would have little effect on white students, the report concludes, as their acceptance rate would rise by merely 0.5 percentage points. Espenshade noted that when one group loses ground, another has to gain -- in this case it would be Asian applicants. Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in the admitted class not taken by African-American and Hispanic students, with an acceptance rate rising from nearly 18 percent to more than 23 percent. Typically, many more Asian students apply to elite schools than other underrepresented minorities. The study also found that although athletes and legacy applicants are predominantly white, their numbers are so small that their admissions do little to displace minority applicants.
  - Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago
    >Espenshade and Chung found that African-American and Hispanic applicants would see their acceptance rates go down noticeably if affirmative action were ended I care about fostering merit more than equality of outcome. Lowing standards for emotional reasons isn't something I care about, or even think is moral.
konstmonst 10y ago
I think chinese have moral and ethical judgement, its just that their culture has other values of what is moral or ethical. I think Intellectual Property is the creation of the Western Culture, do not expect everyone to accept it, or at least not in the form the West uses it. I emigrated to Europe from Russia so I think I understand them a bit more. I remember the times when you had nothing to eat in the 90's, because you had no money or better to say that the money lost value too fast. It was insane to spend it on "Intellectual Property". You can steal food, but how can you steal IP? I am sorry, it just doesn't feel real to me, no matter the amount of propaganda. On the other hand I understand, if you use software without paying the developer, he will have nothing to eat too, so I pay for it, its just no property there that changes hands. Also US manipulate their currency too, like take more debt and print more money. I think your post is very one sided and I dont feel any pity. I mean US sells places in their universities to the highest bidder and then you complain that the highest bidder is you competition?

by o0-0o 10y ago

Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago

This is ridiculous. Racial quotas in American universities select against Chinese people in favour of on average less-capable whites. One of the more noxious examples of modern racism is the fact that the ivies have much higher standards for Asain students than for any other race. Basicly a reply of the 1930s Jewish quotas.

Retric 10y ago
Considering performance after acceptance it's actually reasonable. The best performing group at most Ivy's is poor white students. If anything they are far to open to questionable metrics. PS: Rich white students tend to do far worse at school, but look better at admittance and do better after graduation.
- kartD 10y ago
  Any references you have on this?
  - Retric 10y ago
    Having trouble locating sources, I heard it from a collage professors. But, from what I recall it works something like this. Poor students are vastly less likely to have motivated parents that push and pay for activity's to look good on collage applications. If test prep can add 100 points to a standardized test and two students both have the same score but only one did test prep then the other likely has higher innate intelligence. After the first year innate intelligence makes up a larger role than pre-collage preparations for students motivated enough to get into an Ivy. After school social networks play a larger roll in success than small gaps in innate intelligence. Richer students tend to form more valuable social networks.
    - kartD 10y ago
      While I can't agree/disagree with you points due to the lack of evidence, I was curious to see who did best at Ivies. I felt it would be Indians/Americans of Indian origin. Probably biased because I fall into that category :P
    - projectramo 10y ago
      So the professor could be just as biased. You can justify any bias in such an ad-hoc manner. Rich students might to better because they had better preparation. (Which I had heard but I discount in the absence of evidence.)
      - Retric 10y ago
        Some subjects like math are less subjective. The gentleman's C is an old concept with a range of meanings. But, there has been a long history of students who don't really need to learn anything at collage. However, they greatly benefit from connecting to their peers.
adiabatty 10y ago
https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/78Q19/index.xml?section=newsreleases https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/78Q19/ind... Espenshade and Chung found that African-American and Hispanic applicants would see their acceptance rates go down noticeably if affirmative action were ended: > According to the study, without affirmative action the acceptance rate for African-American candidates likely would fall nearly two-thirds, from 33.7 percent to 12.2 percent, while the acceptance rate for Hispanic applicants likely would be cut in half, from 26.8 percent to 12.9 percent. White students' numbers wouldn't be affected much, but 4/5s of the "missing" African-American and Hispanic students would be "replaced" by Asian students: > Removing consideration of race would have little effect on white students, the report concludes, as their acceptance rate would rise by merely 0.5 percentage points. Espenshade noted that when one group loses ground, another has to gain -- in this case it would be Asian applicants. Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in the admitted class not taken by African-American and Hispanic students, with an acceptance rate rising from nearly 18 percent to more than 23 percent. Typically, many more Asian students apply to elite schools than other underrepresented minorities. The study also found that although athletes and legacy applicants are predominantly white, their numbers are so small that their admissions do little to displace minority applicants.
- Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago
  >Espenshade and Chung found that African-American and Hispanic applicants would see their acceptance rates go down noticeably if affirmative action were ended I care about fostering merit more than equality of outcome. Lowing standards for emotional reasons isn't something I care about, or even think is moral.

konstmonst 10y ago

I think chinese have moral and ethical judgement, its just that their culture has other values of what is moral or ethical. I think Intellectual Property is the creation of the Western Culture, do not expect everyone to accept it, or at least not in the form the West uses it. I emigrated to Europe from Russia so I think I understand them a bit more. I remember the times when you had nothing to eat in the 90's, because you had no money or better to say that the money lost value too fast. It was insane to spend it on "Intellectual Property". You can steal food, but how can you steal IP? I am sorry, it just doesn't feel real to me, no matter the amount of propaganda. On the other hand I understand, if you use software without paying the developer, he will have nothing to eat too, so I pay for it, its just no property there that changes hands. Also US manipulate their currency too, like take more debt and print more money. I think your post is very one sided and I dont feel any pity. I mean US sells places in their universities to the highest bidder and then you complain that the highest bidder is you competition?