7 ms·

The reason why there are so few women in tech (particularly in computer science) is because software engineering is still culturally seen like a "Man's job" and

The reason why there are so few women in tech (particularly in computer science) is because software engineering is still culturally seen like a "Man's job" and fewer women enrol for IT or Computer Science degrees at university. Most of the computer science courses at my uni had only 1 female per 20+ males. Even among women who do want a career in engineering, many tend to choose areas such as chemical or environmental engineering over software engineering. Unfortunately, most people make important life decisions based on social imagery created by the media and society instead of doing what they really want.

blackjettas 10y ago
Wow bro you're so right. The reason is 100% culture. Nature has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's all nurture. Omg. You're so enlightened. The fact that men evolved for millions of years tackling incredibly hard logistics problems (hunting animals, warring against other tribes and nations) while women evolved during that time in social roles that revolved around bearing and caring for children has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that men gravitate more towards solving logistics problems than women. Absolutely not related. Nope. Not at all. It's all CULTURE! Nature had nothing to with it, it's all NURTURE! /s You're blaming it all on culture but only a sith deals in absolutes. The real answer is a combination of nature and nurture. Your black and white thinking reveals your cluelessness. Watch this documentary if you actually want to learn the empirical truth about nature, nurture, gender, etc: http://vimeo.com/19889788 http://vimeo.com/19889788 Until then, have fun remaining in your hypnotized trance state of thinking in absolutist black-and-white terms and blaming culture for everything you don't like.
- dang 10y ago
  We've banned this account for breaking the HN guidelines. If you want to comment here, you need to do so civilly and substantively, and avoid flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
  - blackjettas 10y ago
    Eh. One could argue that the link itself is a "flamewar topic" because it's such a contentious issue. The Vimeo link I provided is something "genuinely new", I've certainly never seen it here before. However, I understand that my ad hominems broke HN guidelines. Carry on. Trump 2016. ;)
gambiting 10y ago
On the contrary, my sister was directly told by a career advisor at school that she should go and study computer science/software engineering, because even if she doesn't like it, some company will have to hire her because she is a woman. I think she was considering it, but after that meeting she decided completely against it, deciding that she would hate to be given a job purely because of her gender.
- arjie 10y ago
  She was misinformed. If she was considering it because she was interested, she could continue to consider it.
  - hnal943 10y ago
    Arguing she was misinformed is different that arguing she made a decision you don't agree with. What did the guidance counselor say that was incorrect? Her decision to choose a different career where she wouldn't have to worry about being considered a token is one of the tragedies of the politically correct insistence on diversity.
    - arjie 10y ago
      Which companies have stated policies of hiring without some test of skill? The guidance counselor's statement is myth.
      - gambiting 10y ago
        Do you think any company has a written policy of "only hire women"? Of course not - that would get them in legal trouble. But I guarantee that I know companies where if there is an opening for a technical position, if there is 10 male applicants and one female applicant, the woman will get the position regardless of her skill, because they company is trying to hire more women no matter what.
        arjie 10y ago
sevenless 10y ago
I'm curious. Why is the lack of women in software development seen as a more urgent issue than the lack of men in school teaching or nursing, or the lack of women in blue collar work eg garbage collecting? This isn't meant as 'whataboutery'; it's clear that talented women programmers are being missed... but what are the reasons that tech is getting the focus?
- antisthenes 10y ago
  > Why is the lack of women in software development seen as a more urgent issue than the lack of men in school teaching or nursing, or the lack of women in garbage collection? Seen by whom? I'd wager a sum of money that the average person is far more aware that teaching (primary school at least) is a female-prevalent field and that they do not see it as a problem. Perhaps it's not even a solvable problem (assuming we agree that it actually is a problem) > it's clear that talented women programmers are being missed... Perhaps there's a wider issue of talent being missed because the signaling during employment process in the US is broken for a large chunk of the population? Not to mention certain things like class and wealth signaling.
  - fapjacks 10y ago
    But why isn't it seen as a problem? Isn't that kind of shitty that most people don't see it as a problem that teaching young children is a field "for women"? I think there is insight into the general problem of diversity in all kinds of fields (and not just the small slice of tech jobs) if we look for answers to the questions I just asked.
    - ahartman00 10y ago
      And since there are studies showing that diversity has a positive impact(in tech), why aren't we asking if diverse influences are good for our kids? Maybe male role models would be good for kids?
    - belorn 10y ago
      Last time I saw statistics (based on Sweden, so some difference might exists), only about 10% of men and 10% of women work in a profession with gender equal ratios. Sweden also has about the same 80% of women and men as employed, so it might not be that surprising that the number is so identical between the genders. The big question I find being overlooked by gender equality discussion, is why almost every profession has become gendered, and after all feminist movement in the last 50 years so, the trend of more gendered profession is continuing strong. For example, the teaching profession has since the 60's integrated female gender identity into the work culture, which pushes naturally away men from it. However, I rarely see any gender equality pointing out the problem of the teaching culture as a cause of low male participation. Tech industry has the similar "bro" culture, but that has been targeted by gender equality advocates for about as long as such culture has had a name.
zerohp 10y ago
It is changing. At UIUC undergrad enrollment is officially[1] 1 female per 4 males in Computer Science. I have been told that this year's incoming freshman are 1:1 and they achieved it while raising the average test scores. It will take some time before official numbers become public. They still need to deal with the retention problem. 1. http://www.dmi.illinois.edu/stuenr/#race http://www.dmi.illinois.edu/stuenr/#race
hnal943 10y ago
"Doing what they really want" includes deciding on the type of work environment you want to have. Relationships matter - I know my own happiness with the jobs I have had has hinged more on the people working there and less on the task at hand.

blackjettas 10y ago

Wow bro you're so right. The reason is 100% culture. Nature has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's all nurture. Omg. You're so enlightened. The fact that men evolved for millions of years tackling incredibly hard logistics problems (hunting animals, warring against other tribes and nations) while women evolved during that time in social roles that revolved around bearing and caring for children has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that men gravitate more towards solving logistics problems than women. Absolutely not related. Nope. Not at all. It's all CULTURE! Nature had nothing to with it, it's all NURTURE! /s You're blaming it all on culture but only a sith deals in absolutes. The real answer is a combination of nature and nurture. Your black and white thinking reveals your cluelessness. Watch this documentary if you actually want to learn the empirical truth about nature, nurture, gender, etc: http://vimeo.com/19889788 http://vimeo.com/19889788 Until then, have fun remaining in your hypnotized trance state of thinking in absolutist black-and-white terms and blaming culture for everything you don't like.

dang 10y ago
We've banned this account for breaking the HN guidelines. If you want to comment here, you need to do so civilly and substantively, and avoid flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
- blackjettas 10y ago
  Eh. One could argue that the link itself is a "flamewar topic" because it's such a contentious issue. The Vimeo link I provided is something "genuinely new", I've certainly never seen it here before. However, I understand that my ad hominems broke HN guidelines. Carry on. Trump 2016. ;)

gambiting 10y ago

On the contrary, my sister was directly told by a career advisor at school that she should go and study computer science/software engineering, because even if she doesn't like it, some company will have to hire her because she is a woman. I think she was considering it, but after that meeting she decided completely against it, deciding that she would hate to be given a job purely because of her gender.

arjie 10y ago
She was misinformed. If she was considering it because she was interested, she could continue to consider it.
- hnal943 10y ago
  Arguing she was misinformed is different that arguing she made a decision you don't agree with. What did the guidance counselor say that was incorrect? Her decision to choose a different career where she wouldn't have to worry about being considered a token is one of the tragedies of the politically correct insistence on diversity.
  - arjie 10y ago
    Which companies have stated policies of hiring without some test of skill? The guidance counselor's statement is myth.
    - gambiting 10y ago
      Do you think any company has a written policy of "only hire women"? Of course not - that would get them in legal trouble. But I guarantee that I know companies where if there is an opening for a technical position, if there is 10 male applicants and one female applicant, the woman will get the position regardless of her skill, because they company is trying to hire more women no matter what.
      - arjie 10y ago

sevenless 10y ago

I'm curious. Why is the lack of women in software development seen as a more urgent issue than the lack of men in school teaching or nursing, or the lack of women in blue collar work eg garbage collecting? This isn't meant as 'whataboutery'; it's clear that talented women programmers are being missed... but what are the reasons that tech is getting the focus?

antisthenes 10y ago
> Why is the lack of women in software development seen as a more urgent issue than the lack of men in school teaching or nursing, or the lack of women in garbage collection? Seen by whom? I'd wager a sum of money that the average person is far more aware that teaching (primary school at least) is a female-prevalent field and that they do not see it as a problem. Perhaps it's not even a solvable problem (assuming we agree that it actually is a problem) > it's clear that talented women programmers are being missed... Perhaps there's a wider issue of talent being missed because the signaling during employment process in the US is broken for a large chunk of the population? Not to mention certain things like class and wealth signaling.
- fapjacks 10y ago
  But why isn't it seen as a problem? Isn't that kind of shitty that most people don't see it as a problem that teaching young children is a field "for women"? I think there is insight into the general problem of diversity in all kinds of fields (and not just the small slice of tech jobs) if we look for answers to the questions I just asked.
  - ahartman00 10y ago
    And since there are studies showing that diversity has a positive impact(in tech), why aren't we asking if diverse influences are good for our kids? Maybe male role models would be good for kids?
  - belorn 10y ago
    Last time I saw statistics (based on Sweden, so some difference might exists), only about 10% of men and 10% of women work in a profession with gender equal ratios. Sweden also has about the same 80% of women and men as employed, so it might not be that surprising that the number is so identical between the genders. The big question I find being overlooked by gender equality discussion, is why almost every profession has become gendered, and after all feminist movement in the last 50 years so, the trend of more gendered profession is continuing strong. For example, the teaching profession has since the 60's integrated female gender identity into the work culture, which pushes naturally away men from it. However, I rarely see any gender equality pointing out the problem of the teaching culture as a cause of low male participation. Tech industry has the similar "bro" culture, but that has been targeted by gender equality advocates for about as long as such culture has had a name.

zerohp 10y ago

It is changing. At UIUC undergrad enrollment is officially[1] 1 female per 4 males in Computer Science. I have been told that this year's incoming freshman are 1:1 and they achieved it while raising the average test scores. It will take some time before official numbers become public. They still need to deal with the retention problem. 1. http://www.dmi.illinois.edu/stuenr/#race http://www.dmi.illinois.edu/stuenr/#race

hnal943 10y ago

"Doing what they really want" includes deciding on the type of work environment you want to have. Relationships matter - I know my own happiness with the jobs I have had has hinged more on the people working there and less on the task at hand.