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How is "privatising/patenting seeds" synonymous with "G.M.O. Foods"? The Nobel Laureates are not talking about the business-practice of certain companies, but

by eivarv 10y ago

How is "privatising/patenting seeds" synonymous with "G.M.O. Foods"? The Nobel Laureates are not talking about the business-practice of certain companies, but rather about fear-mongering about G.M.O.s themselves, e.g. appeals to nature as basis for "health concerns", etc.

BonsaiDen 10y ago
They are simply ignoring the real world economic impacts though, which is stubborn to say the least. The world is no utopia, and as long as money / economic gain is the utmost priority for most of humanity and its corporations, allowing widespread use of patented G.M.O.s will only cause more damage in the long run. Imagine a whole countries population being dependent upon a companies patented seeds. Now add some secret courts implemented via trade agreements so the country is effectively unable to just "use" these seeds without paying up incredible amounts of money and suddenly you got yourself a situation where the country might end up under effective control by the company. Yes there's probably still a way out of this dilemma, but with the right/wrong people coming to power through the course of action, you might quickly end up with nationalist government for which the most easy solution is out is a war.
- etatoby 10y ago
  Spot on. Let's try not to end up as the Century of the GMO Wars.
etatoby 10y ago
They are synonymous because that's the current situation: GMOs are the product of billion of dollars of R&D, on which the owners fully expect a return on investment. Which means protecting the IP of GMOs, aka. sterilizing / privatizing / patenting seeds, and usually selling additional chemical products related to the GMOs, as in RoundUp resistant seeds, with their own set of problems when deployed on a massive scale. The Laureates are effectively saying: "GMOs are OK to eat. This scientific / statistical fact has no direct link to how they are developed and sold in practice and what consequences that will have on society, the economy, and the environment. That's a different problem. Stop bashing GMOs." They are not only missing the point: they are behaving in a very irresponsible way.
- sverige 10y ago
  I still remember a statement by Armand Hammer or one of his lackeys at Occidental Petroleum in the '80s when asked why they bought IBP, then the largest meat-packing company in the US: "We think food is going to be the oil of the '90s."
- CuriouslyC 10y ago
  Patents have a very limited lifetime. All those GMO crops will enter the public domain and be freely available.
  - randomdata 10y ago
    Yup. Roundup Ready 1, the trait that started all of this GMO talk in the first place, is already out of patent.
- eivarv 10y ago
  Sure - it is the current situation to some extent. But I think would be solvable via regulation, not to mention that this is a different discussion entirely. I don't think they are necessarily behaving in an irresponsible way, though. They are evaluating G.M.O.s with regard to health, safety, nutrition, poverty/famine and so on - not with regards to social and economical consequences (which I think would fall more within the purview of policy and regulation). Ultimately, this issue is highly politicized, and the debate (including the comments here on HN) is often fraught with personal opinion.
  - tomp 10y ago
    It's not different discussion. It's like someone saying "Don't buy iPhones!" and you answering "But they're totally safe, they won't kill you." while ignoring they're produced using child labour. (Probably iPhones aren't, but almost surely some other products are.)
    - eivarv 10y ago
      It is. I see it more like someone saying (to stick with your example): "Don't buy iPhones - they'll kill you!", and scientists answering "But they're totally safe, they won't kill you." Meanwhile, they may be products of child-labour (or whatever other horrible circumstance we may imagine), but that's a different issue from what we are discussing. Anyway, we're getting off track here:P
deadowl 10y ago
Patenting plant strains is a bit older than GMOs.
- FLGMwt 10y ago
  Pardon my ignorance, but how is that possible?
  - randomdata 10y ago
    http://www.monsanto.com/food-inc/pages/seeds-patent-history.aspx http://www.monsanto.com/food-inc/pages/seeds-patent-history....

by eivarv 10y ago

BonsaiDen 10y ago

They are simply ignoring the real world economic impacts though, which is stubborn to say the least. The world is no utopia, and as long as money / economic gain is the utmost priority for most of humanity and its corporations, allowing widespread use of patented G.M.O.s will only cause more damage in the long run. Imagine a whole countries population being dependent upon a companies patented seeds. Now add some secret courts implemented via trade agreements so the country is effectively unable to just "use" these seeds without paying up incredible amounts of money and suddenly you got yourself a situation where the country might end up under effective control by the company. Yes there's probably still a way out of this dilemma, but with the right/wrong people coming to power through the course of action, you might quickly end up with nationalist government for which the most easy solution is out is a war.

etatoby 10y ago
Spot on. Let's try not to end up as the Century of the GMO Wars.

etatoby 10y ago

They are synonymous because that's the current situation: GMOs are the product of billion of dollars of R&D, on which the owners fully expect a return on investment. Which means protecting the IP of GMOs, aka. sterilizing / privatizing / patenting seeds, and usually selling additional chemical products related to the GMOs, as in RoundUp resistant seeds, with their own set of problems when deployed on a massive scale. The Laureates are effectively saying: "GMOs are OK to eat. This scientific / statistical fact has no direct link to how they are developed and sold in practice and what consequences that will have on society, the economy, and the environment. That's a different problem. Stop bashing GMOs." They are not only missing the point: they are behaving in a very irresponsible way.

sverige 10y ago
I still remember a statement by Armand Hammer or one of his lackeys at Occidental Petroleum in the '80s when asked why they bought IBP, then the largest meat-packing company in the US: "We think food is going to be the oil of the '90s."
CuriouslyC 10y ago
Patents have a very limited lifetime. All those GMO crops will enter the public domain and be freely available.
- randomdata 10y ago
  Yup. Roundup Ready 1, the trait that started all of this GMO talk in the first place, is already out of patent.
eivarv 10y ago
Sure - it is the current situation to some extent. But I think would be solvable via regulation, not to mention that this is a different discussion entirely. I don't think they are necessarily behaving in an irresponsible way, though. They are evaluating G.M.O.s with regard to health, safety, nutrition, poverty/famine and so on - not with regards to social and economical consequences (which I think would fall more within the purview of policy and regulation). Ultimately, this issue is highly politicized, and the debate (including the comments here on HN) is often fraught with personal opinion.
- tomp 10y ago
  It's not different discussion. It's like someone saying "Don't buy iPhones!" and you answering "But they're totally safe, they won't kill you." while ignoring they're produced using child labour. (Probably iPhones aren't, but almost surely some other products are.)
  - eivarv 10y ago
    It is. I see it more like someone saying (to stick with your example): "Don't buy iPhones - they'll kill you!", and scientists answering "But they're totally safe, they won't kill you." Meanwhile, they may be products of child-labour (or whatever other horrible circumstance we may imagine), but that's a different issue from what we are discussing. Anyway, we're getting off track here:P

deadowl 10y ago

Patenting plant strains is a bit older than GMOs.

FLGMwt 10y ago
Pardon my ignorance, but how is that possible?
- randomdata 10y ago
  http://www.monsanto.com/food-inc/pages/seeds-patent-history.aspx http://www.monsanto.com/food-inc/pages/seeds-patent-history....