7 ms·

Well... Actually it would seem that Scotland would really like to become independent and be part of the EU. That article should have considered Edimburg, even

by realo 10y ago

Well... Actually it would seem that Scotland would really like to become independent and be part of the EU. That article should have considered Edimburg, even if it might have been a journalistic faux-pas.

s_kilk 10y ago
If Scotland gets its Independence, then Edinburgh is a great candidate for a new London for the finance industry, as it's already got a decent finance presence.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Edinburgh is probably far too small and the centre is too protected (it's a World Heritage Site) for much development to happen here. I'll admit to possibly being a bit of NIMBY in my comment as I live and work in central Edinburgh! http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/728 http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/728
  - Reason077 10y ago
    Edinburgh is a similar size to Zurich - a city regarded as one of the world's most important financial centres.
    - arethuza 10y ago
      What I meant is that I doubt Edinburgh could handle an influx of additional bankers on a large scale. I don't think there would be many places for them to go in the actual city itself.
    - dagw 10y ago
      Depends on how you count. If you include everything that is within a reasonable train/bus commute of the city center then Zurich has at least double the "population" of Edinburgh.
  - s_kilk 10y ago
    Yeah, I'll accept that it could be difficult to add capacity in the center of the city.
gadders 10y ago
"become independent and part of the EU" - an oxymoron, no?
- rmc 10y ago
  No. Scotland would leave the UK and join the EU. Ireland did exactly that, getting inpendence from the UK in 1922, and joining EU in 1979 or so. Scotland, and the Scottish Parliament, would be free to charge what taxes it wants, and have more power over where that would go.
- ZeroGravitas 10y ago
  Not really. The UK decided itself to leave the EU. The UK claims that Scotland doesn't have the legal standing to make that call itself. That's a fairly clear sign of loss of sovereignty.
  - willvarfar 10y ago
    Greenland left the EU, although Denmark stayed. Perhaps England can leave the EU but other NI and Scotland stay?
    - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
      It has been mooted. There's lots of UK tax havens that weren't part of the EU anyway. But not very likely.
    - lucozade 10y ago
      Nicola Sturgeon, the First Minister of Scotland, has been in Brussels discussing this. In summary, it's complicated. Firstly, economically, the remainder of the UK is a far larger market for Scotland than the EU. This wouldn't be a big issue if the UK can negotiate very good access to the single market but that's highly questionable. It also is complicated by the second point. Secondly, it is highly unlikely that Scotland would be able to (re)enter the EU without joining the Euro. There are other exemptions the UK has that Scotland won't get but this is the biggy. It was the SNP's original economic plan to join the Euro. However, when the Euro went politically toxic following the crash, this was dropped and pretty much killed SNP's economic argument in the independence referendum. It's still pretty toxic but is probably less so given that the EU referendum has hosed Sterling. Thirdly, a big issue in the independence referendum that hasn't gone away is that an EU entry requires unanimity and Spain are dead against separatist movements because of the Basque situation. It's possible that they will have their arm twisted by the EU commission if it means another net contributor added to the Euro block but it's not clear cut. Fourthly, legally, they don't get to choose. They can't officially negotiate with the EU as they aren't treaty partners. Only Westminster can legally grant separation. If Scotland had voted independence the first time then it would have been followed through without a doubt. It is entirely possible the UK parliament will refuse a second time because of the outcome the first. As to NI, all of the above and then some. The whole of the Troubles was really about NI's status in the United Kingdom and giving that up is unlikely to be a quiet affair. Maybe it won't become violent but there's more history there than in Scotland. In short, I wouldn't even begin to know how to call this.
pilsetnieks 10y ago
Unless they can arrange and commit to a neat handoff where UK leaves the EU, Scotland becomes independent, and Scotland joins the EU at the same time, there's a period of time when Scotland is outside the EU, and too much uncertainty for that to be feasible.
throwaway987611 10y ago
Scotland won't be independent, because they would have to take the Euro. They won't be allowed to use the Pound. So, they will end up like Greece. I really why people don't see this. It's the BRITISH parliment in WESTMINISTER who will decide who uses the pound. NOT YOU, Mr/Mrs Commentator. And they will decide to not allow scotland to use it.
- gambiting 10y ago
  Well, they could, theoretically, print their own pound(as they already do) and tie its value to that of GBP. Or maybe don't do that, and have it separate, like US and Canadian dollars. I know you are going to say that if they join EU they would have to take the eruo - but I don't see why it couldn't be negotiated away, there's plenty of countries which agreed to take the Euro(Poland for example) but after the 2008 crisis, suspended the adaption indefinitely.
  - arethuza 10y ago
    Scottish banks do indeed print their own bank notes (as do some in NI)- but they are for the GDP. Mind you, you used to get situations (a while back) where foreign exchange places in Europe would give you worse exchange rates for Scottish notes rather than English ones.
    - loopbit 10y ago
      Foreign exchanges giving worse exchange rate is better than the situation I've had many times in england, were I was simply unable to pay with or exchange northern irish or scottish pounds. Someone told me that, by law, they have to accept those notes, but I still have ~40 NI pounds that I took to london on a trip a couple of years ago and had to take back with me.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - doc_holliday 10y ago

by realo 10y ago

s_kilk 10y ago

If Scotland gets its Independence, then Edinburgh is a great candidate for a new London for the finance industry, as it's already got a decent finance presence.

arethuza 10y ago
Edinburgh is probably far too small and the centre is too protected (it's a World Heritage Site) for much development to happen here. I'll admit to possibly being a bit of NIMBY in my comment as I live and work in central Edinburgh! http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/728 http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/728
- Reason077 10y ago
  Edinburgh is a similar size to Zurich - a city regarded as one of the world's most important financial centres.
  - arethuza 10y ago
    What I meant is that I doubt Edinburgh could handle an influx of additional bankers on a large scale. I don't think there would be many places for them to go in the actual city itself.
  - dagw 10y ago
    Depends on how you count. If you include everything that is within a reasonable train/bus commute of the city center then Zurich has at least double the "population" of Edinburgh.
- s_kilk 10y ago
  Yeah, I'll accept that it could be difficult to add capacity in the center of the city.

gadders 10y ago

"become independent and part of the EU" - an oxymoron, no?

rmc 10y ago
No. Scotland would leave the UK and join the EU. Ireland did exactly that, getting inpendence from the UK in 1922, and joining EU in 1979 or so. Scotland, and the Scottish Parliament, would be free to charge what taxes it wants, and have more power over where that would go.
ZeroGravitas 10y ago
Not really. The UK decided itself to leave the EU. The UK claims that Scotland doesn't have the legal standing to make that call itself. That's a fairly clear sign of loss of sovereignty.
- willvarfar 10y ago
  Greenland left the EU, although Denmark stayed. Perhaps England can leave the EU but other NI and Scotland stay?
  - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
    It has been mooted. There's lots of UK tax havens that weren't part of the EU anyway. But not very likely.
  - lucozade 10y ago
    Nicola Sturgeon, the First Minister of Scotland, has been in Brussels discussing this. In summary, it's complicated. Firstly, economically, the remainder of the UK is a far larger market for Scotland than the EU. This wouldn't be a big issue if the UK can negotiate very good access to the single market but that's highly questionable. It also is complicated by the second point. Secondly, it is highly unlikely that Scotland would be able to (re)enter the EU without joining the Euro. There are other exemptions the UK has that Scotland won't get but this is the biggy. It was the SNP's original economic plan to join the Euro. However, when the Euro went politically toxic following the crash, this was dropped and pretty much killed SNP's economic argument in the independence referendum. It's still pretty toxic but is probably less so given that the EU referendum has hosed Sterling. Thirdly, a big issue in the independence referendum that hasn't gone away is that an EU entry requires unanimity and Spain are dead against separatist movements because of the Basque situation. It's possible that they will have their arm twisted by the EU commission if it means another net contributor added to the Euro block but it's not clear cut. Fourthly, legally, they don't get to choose. They can't officially negotiate with the EU as they aren't treaty partners. Only Westminster can legally grant separation. If Scotland had voted independence the first time then it would have been followed through without a doubt. It is entirely possible the UK parliament will refuse a second time because of the outcome the first. As to NI, all of the above and then some. The whole of the Troubles was really about NI's status in the United Kingdom and giving that up is unlikely to be a quiet affair. Maybe it won't become violent but there's more history there than in Scotland. In short, I wouldn't even begin to know how to call this.

pilsetnieks 10y ago

Unless they can arrange and commit to a neat handoff where UK leaves the EU, Scotland becomes independent, and Scotland joins the EU at the same time, there's a period of time when Scotland is outside the EU, and too much uncertainty for that to be feasible.

throwaway987611 10y ago

Scotland won't be independent, because they would have to take the Euro. They won't be allowed to use the Pound. So, they will end up like Greece. I really why people don't see this. It's the BRITISH parliment in WESTMINISTER who will decide who uses the pound. NOT YOU, Mr/Mrs Commentator. And they will decide to not allow scotland to use it.

gambiting 10y ago
Well, they could, theoretically, print their own pound(as they already do) and tie its value to that of GBP. Or maybe don't do that, and have it separate, like US and Canadian dollars. I know you are going to say that if they join EU they would have to take the eruo - but I don't see why it couldn't be negotiated away, there's plenty of countries which agreed to take the Euro(Poland for example) but after the 2008 crisis, suspended the adaption indefinitely.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Scottish banks do indeed print their own bank notes (as do some in NI)- but they are for the GDP. Mind you, you used to get situations (a while back) where foreign exchange places in Europe would give you worse exchange rates for Scottish notes rather than English ones.
  - loopbit 10y ago
    Foreign exchanges giving worse exchange rate is better than the situation I've had many times in england, were I was simply unable to pay with or exchange northern irish or scottish pounds. Someone told me that, by law, they have to accept those notes, but I still have ~40 NI pounds that I took to london on a trip a couple of years ago and had to take back with me.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - doc_holliday 10y ago