4 ms·

The thing I fear now, is fearmongering by people who dont drive Teslas, havent spent time with Autosteer/autopilot and ignore that this was a freak accident, th

The thing I fear now, is fearmongering by people who dont drive Teslas, havent spent time with Autosteer/autopilot and ignore that this was a freak accident, that probably would have killed the driver regardless of using autopilot. This is the future of roadsafety.

tmikaeld 10y ago
That's exactly what i fear as well, that innovation will halt and reverse because of fear of using new technology. Even if it's statistically safer than the alternative.
- rimantas 10y ago
  Mistaking truck for a road sign is not a future I want.
Swizec 10y ago
Or MAYBE it's time to install safety skirts on trucks just like they do in Europe? There's no reason why an entire sedan should fit under the trailer of a truck. This is what a truck designed for safety looks like: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Artic.lorry.arp.750pix.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Artic.lo... Notice how no part of it is higher off the ground than a foot or so. Way too low for a car to fit under. This is what truck in the US looks like: http://www.center-linecurtains.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/HomePageTruckN.png http://www.center-linecurtains.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/0... Notice how you could hide a sports car underneath.
- mschuster91 10y ago
  > There's no reason why an entire sedan should fit under the trailer of a truck. There is, it's called capitalism, and a safety skirt costs money. The fix is, as in many cases, regulations. However, I believe that even the shown safety skirt leaves too much space below, and especially exposed tires, which is still dangerous for pedestrians and bikers.
  - Swizec 10y ago
    A lot of those skirts also aren't quite as strong as they should be. Here's a comparison between one that fails testing and one that doesn't: https://youtu.be/gL8DQIAqZms?t=151 https://youtu.be/gL8DQIAqZms?t=151 As for pedestrians and bikers, I really really like Europe's solution to that problem: Pedestrian and Bikers are illegal on the freeway. Big trucks are made strongly and forcefully impractical in cities, towns, and villages. It's crazy that I live in downtown SF and there are huge freight trucks driving past my bedroom window every day.
    - mschuster91 10y ago
      With the pedestrians and bikers, I mainly meant when large trucks are driving in the cities to serve e.g. supermarkets - one I worked at, right in the center of Munich, had a huge 40-ton truck serving it each day. It's dangerous as hell, but impractical to do any other way...
      - Swizec 10y ago
        Maybe it was just my neck of Europe then. Trucks would only go to supermarkets on the big roads where there's strict physical separation between traffic and everyone else. They're also position on the edge of the city next to the ring freeway so that trucks have a short path from freeway to supermarket. Deliveries inside the city are done with smaller lorries which are a bit safer maybe. If not safer, definitely more practical on tight inner-city streets. I don't think it's practical for trucks to be designed as pedestrian safe as modern city buses are, so it's better to keep them away from pedestrians as much as possible.
  - randyrand 10y ago
    Non for profits that buy semi trucks also do not install safety skirts. Neither do any government trucks I've seen. I don't think capitalism is the issue.
    - mschuster91 10y ago
      Capitalism is the issue because the money is being saved by cutting corners on safety. In case of non-profits and the government people might actually sue for wasting of money because money is spent on stuff that is not required by law.
Svip 10y ago
Good point. But I think it is too early to call this a 'freak accident', because we don't know enough. Tesla have statistics on their side so far, but they still have not done a fraction of kilometres travelled by conventional means. I hope the technology moves forward, but the technology is not there yet and won't be appearing on a majority of new cars for decades. I predict - moreso than fear - that as more of these incidents occur (and I am confident there will be more), more people will lose their trust in self-driving cars. Consider the following: The safest form of transportation is air travel. Yet despite the overwhelming evidence in air transport's favour, a significant portion of people are afraid to get on an aeroplane. Indeed, an aeroplane can practical fly itself (and have been able to for decades), yet few of us would feel safe if there wasn't a pilot on board. Surely the same fears will soon apply to self-driving cars?
- d8421l01vv4r 10y ago
  Part of the reason why people are afraid of flying is because you are locked inside an aluminium container flying 10km above ground. Sitting in a self-driving car is psychologically quite different.
  - Svip 10y ago
    True, but that's those who are simply afraid of flying. It still doesn't necessarily explain those people who would be uncomfortable flying without a pilot, but perfectly fine with one. I also hear people telling me that they would not be comfortable with a passenger on a self-driving bus. Anecdotal evidence, I know. And since they haven't actually experienced one, I still think the jury is out on this one; but it still strike me as curious that rational people are not always swayed by statistics.
    - kozak 10y ago
      It depends on people's preconceptions. I live in a country where taxi drivers race like in that Taxi movie, and often remove seat belts from passenger seats for macho reasons, so self-driving taxis would be something that would allow me to ride in a taxi without fear.
wibr 10y ago
Why do you think that this is a "freak accident"? The situation doesn't seem to be very unusual or unlikely. The sensors should definitely detect a truck that is crossing your lane.
KaiserPro 10y ago
Thank you for illustrating my point so clearly. There is no evidence that this is freak accident. There may be a systematic flaw in the firmware, or not using sensors, or any number of things that only come to light in situations like this.

tmikaeld 10y ago

That's exactly what i fear as well, that innovation will halt and reverse because of fear of using new technology. Even if it's statistically safer than the alternative.

rimantas 10y ago
Mistaking truck for a road sign is not a future I want.

Swizec 10y ago

Or MAYBE it's time to install safety skirts on trucks just like they do in Europe? There's no reason why an entire sedan should fit under the trailer of a truck. This is what a truck designed for safety looks like: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Artic.lorry.arp.750pix.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Artic.lo... Notice how no part of it is higher off the ground than a foot or so. Way too low for a car to fit under. This is what truck in the US looks like: http://www.center-linecurtains.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/HomePageTruckN.png http://www.center-linecurtains.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/0... Notice how you could hide a sports car underneath.

mschuster91 10y ago
> There's no reason why an entire sedan should fit under the trailer of a truck. There is, it's called capitalism, and a safety skirt costs money. The fix is, as in many cases, regulations. However, I believe that even the shown safety skirt leaves too much space below, and especially exposed tires, which is still dangerous for pedestrians and bikers.
- Swizec 10y ago
  A lot of those skirts also aren't quite as strong as they should be. Here's a comparison between one that fails testing and one that doesn't: https://youtu.be/gL8DQIAqZms?t=151 https://youtu.be/gL8DQIAqZms?t=151 As for pedestrians and bikers, I really really like Europe's solution to that problem: Pedestrian and Bikers are illegal on the freeway. Big trucks are made strongly and forcefully impractical in cities, towns, and villages. It's crazy that I live in downtown SF and there are huge freight trucks driving past my bedroom window every day.
  - mschuster91 10y ago
    With the pedestrians and bikers, I mainly meant when large trucks are driving in the cities to serve e.g. supermarkets - one I worked at, right in the center of Munich, had a huge 40-ton truck serving it each day. It's dangerous as hell, but impractical to do any other way...
    - Swizec 10y ago
      Maybe it was just my neck of Europe then. Trucks would only go to supermarkets on the big roads where there's strict physical separation between traffic and everyone else. They're also position on the edge of the city next to the ring freeway so that trucks have a short path from freeway to supermarket. Deliveries inside the city are done with smaller lorries which are a bit safer maybe. If not safer, definitely more practical on tight inner-city streets. I don't think it's practical for trucks to be designed as pedestrian safe as modern city buses are, so it's better to keep them away from pedestrians as much as possible.
- randyrand 10y ago
  Non for profits that buy semi trucks also do not install safety skirts. Neither do any government trucks I've seen. I don't think capitalism is the issue.
  - mschuster91 10y ago
    Capitalism is the issue because the money is being saved by cutting corners on safety. In case of non-profits and the government people might actually sue for wasting of money because money is spent on stuff that is not required by law.

Svip 10y ago

Good point. But I think it is too early to call this a 'freak accident', because we don't know enough. Tesla have statistics on their side so far, but they still have not done a fraction of kilometres travelled by conventional means. I hope the technology moves forward, but the technology is not there yet and won't be appearing on a majority of new cars for decades. I predict - moreso than fear - that as more of these incidents occur (and I am confident there will be more), more people will lose their trust in self-driving cars. Consider the following: The safest form of transportation is air travel. Yet despite the overwhelming evidence in air transport's favour, a significant portion of people are afraid to get on an aeroplane. Indeed, an aeroplane can practical fly itself (and have been able to for decades), yet few of us would feel safe if there wasn't a pilot on board. Surely the same fears will soon apply to self-driving cars?

d8421l01vv4r 10y ago
Part of the reason why people are afraid of flying is because you are locked inside an aluminium container flying 10km above ground. Sitting in a self-driving car is psychologically quite different.
- Svip 10y ago
  True, but that's those who are simply afraid of flying. It still doesn't necessarily explain those people who would be uncomfortable flying without a pilot, but perfectly fine with one. I also hear people telling me that they would not be comfortable with a passenger on a self-driving bus. Anecdotal evidence, I know. And since they haven't actually experienced one, I still think the jury is out on this one; but it still strike me as curious that rational people are not always swayed by statistics.
  - kozak 10y ago
    It depends on people's preconceptions. I live in a country where taxi drivers race like in that Taxi movie, and often remove seat belts from passenger seats for macho reasons, so self-driving taxis would be something that would allow me to ride in a taxi without fear.

wibr 10y ago

Why do you think that this is a "freak accident"? The situation doesn't seem to be very unusual or unlikely. The sensors should definitely detect a truck that is crossing your lane.

KaiserPro 10y ago

Thank you for illustrating my point so clearly. There is no evidence that this is freak accident. There may be a systematic flaw in the firmware, or not using sensors, or any number of things that only come to light in situations like this.