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They really need to scrap this idea that people can sit there and not have to do anything for long periods, and still be alert. It's not reasonable to expect t

They really need to scrap this idea that people can sit there and not have to do anything for long periods, and still be alert. It's not reasonable to expect that -- and this sort of thing will happen when you rely on that system working.

brian-armstrong 10y ago
This is an interesting point. Seems like it'd be useful if the car made you drive for 5 minutes out of every 30 of your trip Edit: Also I realize that technically you are always driving. By driving here I mean in the active sense -- no automatic steering or cruise control
- nojvek 10y ago
  My Toyota RAV4 has adaptive cruise control and can auto steer back into lane if I'm too far off. I wished that it could auto follow a lane. It has everything that it needs to make that happen. But I also like that they dumbed it down that I have to have the hand on the steering wheel otherwise it complains loudly. Automotive car crashes should be investigated with the rigour of aeroplane crashes. The only way to make it safer for the next driver is to learn as much from the bug here and fix it. I also strongly believe that cars should pass a rigorous test of edge cases and be scored on that.
Animats 10y ago
Exactly. I've referred to this as the "deadly valley" - enough automation that the driver can tune out, but not enough automation to operate safely without driver attention. Google has done some studies on how fast a driver can take over in an emergency, and it's seconds, not milliseconds. Aviation safety people note that it takes about 30 seconds after an autopilot disconnect before pilots have full situational awareness. Tesla, by intent, has built a system right in the middle of the "deadly valley". Tesla's "autopilot" is just lane-keeping and smart cruise control. All the major auto manufacturers have comparable technology, and many high-end cars ship with it now. But the bigger players have avoided promoting it as automatic driving, and restrict the technology to avoid driver over-reliance. Google and Volvo both have better systems then Tesla's, but aren't shipping them yet. They both take the position that safety is their problem, not the driver's. Volvo's CEO has said publicly that if one of our cars gets into an accident while in auto mode, it's our fault. Tesla blames the driver.

brian-armstrong 10y ago

This is an interesting point. Seems like it'd be useful if the car made you drive for 5 minutes out of every 30 of your trip Edit: Also I realize that technically you are always driving. By driving here I mean in the active sense -- no automatic steering or cruise control

nojvek 10y ago
My Toyota RAV4 has adaptive cruise control and can auto steer back into lane if I'm too far off. I wished that it could auto follow a lane. It has everything that it needs to make that happen. But I also like that they dumbed it down that I have to have the hand on the steering wheel otherwise it complains loudly. Automotive car crashes should be investigated with the rigour of aeroplane crashes. The only way to make it safer for the next driver is to learn as much from the bug here and fix it. I also strongly believe that cars should pass a rigorous test of edge cases and be scored on that.

Animats 10y ago

Exactly. I've referred to this as the "deadly valley" - enough automation that the driver can tune out, but not enough automation to operate safely without driver attention. Google has done some studies on how fast a driver can take over in an emergency, and it's seconds, not milliseconds. Aviation safety people note that it takes about 30 seconds after an autopilot disconnect before pilots have full situational awareness. Tesla, by intent, has built a system right in the middle of the "deadly valley". Tesla's "autopilot" is just lane-keeping and smart cruise control. All the major auto manufacturers have comparable technology, and many high-end cars ship with it now. But the bigger players have avoided promoting it as automatic driving, and restrict the technology to avoid driver over-reliance. Google and Volvo both have better systems then Tesla's, but aren't shipping them yet. They both take the position that safety is their problem, not the driver's. Volvo's CEO has said publicly that if one of our cars gets into an accident while in auto mode, it's our fault. Tesla blames the driver.