7 ms·

Everything you described is simply ways that rich people avoid living around poor people. Yes, it generally excludes blacks, but that's incidental and only beca

Everything you described is simply ways that rich people avoid living around poor people. Yes, it generally excludes blacks, but that's incidental and only because blacks tend to be poor. On the flipside, these policies keep out poor whites as much as poor blacks, for the exact same reasons. Rich black basketball players, musicians, doctors and politicians have no problem living in mostly-white neighborhoods. Of course, rich Asians also have no trouble living in white neighborhoods, because there are no racial segregation policies. I find it amazing how you attribute the simple dynamics of people sorting themselves by wealth, which have been very strong in all urban societies everywhere ever, and make them out as though they're some sort of racial targeting system. e.g. 19th century Paris was almost all white French and had the same wealth clustering patterns for the same fundamental reasons.

natrius 10y ago
I'm not asking anyone to undo the injustices that have walled off generations of black families from wealth. I mean, you should, but I don't think y'all are up for it. What I'm asking is that you not pile injustices on top of each other. "It's just economic segregation" is the worst excuse I've ever heard. Yes, some level of segregation is inevitable and acceptable. That's not what I'm talking about. Repeal our segregation laws. Repeal them! Stop forcing families with less money out of your neighborhoods by law! Stop pretending this isn't a terrible thing!
- GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
  What segregation laws are you talking about? Zoning?
- Snargorf 10y ago
  Blacks aren't poor because of some external injustice. They're poor because, as a group, their culture and low average IQ leave them poorly equipped for modern economic life. That's not to say they don't deserve help, but that help should be brought in the context of a hard-nosed understanding of the real reasons for their situation. The path of idealism and wishful thinking has been tried for 50 years, and nothing has improved - not even a little. The real crime would be continuing with a fantasy viewpoint that has been so thoroughly proven not to work. "The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result." Blacks are suffering and dying every day because people like you refuse to help them as what they are and insist on maintaing the comforting egalitarian delusion. There are no segregation laws, and systemic separation of rich and poor affects races equally once you control for wealth.
  - dang 10y ago
    You've been using HN primarily to post inflammatory ideological rhetoric. That's not a legit use of this site, so please stop doing it. The circle of hell that is the IQ race war is particularly unwelcome here, in all its idee-fixedness.
lsiebert 10y ago
Black people being poor is not incidental, but the results of systematic oppression and discrimination, for work, credit, housing, and other resources. Go look at the wikipedia article on redlining. And this is not a past problem, banks were charging higher interest rates for loans to blacks than whites before the recent recession. Housing discrimination may be illegal, but that doesn't mean it's not still an issue. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/racism-alive-and-well-in-housing/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/racism-alive-and-well-in-housing... systemic racial injustice doesn't mean a racial targeting system. It doesn't even have to be conscious. It is the result of tiny acts of discrimination that add up to disadvantage people of color. As for 19th century France, it wasn't until the 1840's that France outlawed slavery, and then it continued to discriminate against french colonial citizens of color, such as Algerians. That's not to say that class and wealth have no role in affecting black people. But being discriminated against because one is black and being discriminated against because one is poor are not mutually exclusive; they are, if anything, mutually reinforced.
erikpukinskis 10y ago
Rich black people actually do get discriminated against. I have no idea why you think people only discriminate against poor blacks. Or are you trying to say that people just assume most blacks are poor, and that's why discrimination on the basis of skin color isn't actually based on skin color?

natrius 10y ago

I'm not asking anyone to undo the injustices that have walled off generations of black families from wealth. I mean, you should, but I don't think y'all are up for it. What I'm asking is that you not pile injustices on top of each other. "It's just economic segregation" is the worst excuse I've ever heard. Yes, some level of segregation is inevitable and acceptable. That's not what I'm talking about. Repeal our segregation laws. Repeal them! Stop forcing families with less money out of your neighborhoods by law! Stop pretending this isn't a terrible thing!

GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
What segregation laws are you talking about? Zoning?
Snargorf 10y ago
Blacks aren't poor because of some external injustice. They're poor because, as a group, their culture and low average IQ leave them poorly equipped for modern economic life. That's not to say they don't deserve help, but that help should be brought in the context of a hard-nosed understanding of the real reasons for their situation. The path of idealism and wishful thinking has been tried for 50 years, and nothing has improved - not even a little. The real crime would be continuing with a fantasy viewpoint that has been so thoroughly proven not to work. "The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result." Blacks are suffering and dying every day because people like you refuse to help them as what they are and insist on maintaing the comforting egalitarian delusion. There are no segregation laws, and systemic separation of rich and poor affects races equally once you control for wealth.
- dang 10y ago
  You've been using HN primarily to post inflammatory ideological rhetoric. That's not a legit use of this site, so please stop doing it. The circle of hell that is the IQ race war is particularly unwelcome here, in all its idee-fixedness.

lsiebert 10y ago

Black people being poor is not incidental, but the results of systematic oppression and discrimination, for work, credit, housing, and other resources. Go look at the wikipedia article on redlining. And this is not a past problem, banks were charging higher interest rates for loans to blacks than whites before the recent recession. Housing discrimination may be illegal, but that doesn't mean it's not still an issue. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/racism-alive-and-well-in-housing/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/racism-alive-and-well-in-housing... systemic racial injustice doesn't mean a racial targeting system. It doesn't even have to be conscious. It is the result of tiny acts of discrimination that add up to disadvantage people of color. As for 19th century France, it wasn't until the 1840's that France outlawed slavery, and then it continued to discriminate against french colonial citizens of color, such as Algerians. That's not to say that class and wealth have no role in affecting black people. But being discriminated against because one is black and being discriminated against because one is poor are not mutually exclusive; they are, if anything, mutually reinforced.

erikpukinskis 10y ago

Rich black people actually do get discriminated against. I have no idea why you think people only discriminate against poor blacks. Or are you trying to say that people just assume most blacks are poor, and that's why discrimination on the basis of skin color isn't actually based on skin color?