17 ms·

I am only 30 but have been unemployed for about 15 months, due to a significant family health and legal situation. I can definitely say that not working, even

by p4wnc6 10y ago

I am only 30 but have been unemployed for about 15 months, due to a significant family health and legal situation. I can definitely say that not working, even if other life needs are met, has had a hugely adverse affect. I definitely need to feel proud of what I am working on to feel whole and well. Ceasing to work and then resuming a new job search is also demoralizing. Most people will not even consider hiring you unless you are already working, even if you can ace the code tests, point to open source or publicly available work samples, and explain your tech skills in extreme detail. Few people seem to earnestly care what you can actually do technically. Ironically, I've found it's the ones who are hyperfocused on things like HackerRank tests who are least likely to care. Sure, you aced our HackerRank test, but after we thought about the fact you're not already employed we just decided no. I've even had recruiters and hiring managers get irrationally angry at me via email feedback or in phone interviews just for being unemployed, like they are personally mad at me that they have to come up with a reason to reject me. Even when I explain it has been an unavoidable and quite severe family problem, they are still mad. In a few cases it was even borderline verbal abuse. One recruiter took a very condescending tone with me and said something like, "it sounds like you don't even want to work" when I told him some of the things I was searching for in my next position. Then he proceeded to pressure me on several jobs that were clearly not at all appropriate for me. It's incredibly demoralizing, and I am even quite good at what I do. Just tonight I am hacking away at some stuff involving integrating the Postgres C API with the NumPy C API so that I can easily call NumPy array functions on Postgres arrays, as a C extension. It involves knowing a lot about CPython, NumPy, the Postgres C API, Postgres arrays, and a mix of other stuff. My plan is to ultimately compare it with MonetDB, which has tight integration with NumPy arrays natively (whereas, for plpythonu functions, Postgres arrays are converted to Python lists, which is horrible). This is not easy stuff, very advanced CPython stuff and I feel it shows I'm a fast learner too (I've only been using Python for a few years). Doesn't matter. I don't have a job, so nobody looking to hire for the positions I'm seeking will even consider it. It makes it very hard and depressing to continue trying (seemingly in vain) to keep my coding skills sharp.

Kluny 10y ago
You've got to learn to avoid telling them that you're unemployed. Best way is to work for yourself. Assign yourself a project, pay yourself in equity, and work on it for a few hours each day. Rehearse telling people about it in such a way that it sounds like a legit job. That will be easier if you take it as seriously as a legit job.
- p4wnc6 10y ago
  In my case, I was required to relocate from a large east coast city back to my family's home in the rural Midwest, where I perform functions to care for a family circumstance and they take up effectively a full-time job's worth of hours every week. It's all I can do to continue exercising and cooking healthy meals. "Working" a full-time side project that yields no short-term income is wholly and entirely physically intractable in my current situation. Besides that, it would be very dishonest of me to downplay or fudge the explanation of my current period of unemployment. The family problem has been severe and required me to leave from a job, dedicate huge amount of time and money, and many other sacrifices. The only reason I could consider taking a new job is that the income would allow me to pay for people to take over the care duties I am currently personally performing. So the exact, real reasons for my unemployment are actually very relevant, important things for my next employer to understand and fundamentally be OK with.
  - Kluny 10y ago
    Ah, I see. I think that still counts as work. If you've been saying "I've been off work" in interviews, that might not work, but it would be just as true to say "I've been working for my family."
    - p4wnc6 10y ago
      Yes, I do say this. Obviously you can't just vaguely say "I've been working" -- they will ask exactly what "work" you have been doing, which is when I explain just the bare minimum details of my family situation necessary for an employer. Most people interviewing me express a lot of compassion, say it's admirable to see someone sticking to help their family as I have, and then promptly reject me for not currently being employed.
dwaltrip 10y ago
That is a rough situation, and it sounds like you are hanging in there impressively. Hats off to you for that. I do have to agree with the other poster, I sounds like the big thing here is the framing of the situation, your presentation, and projecting confidence. Perhaps doing fake interviews with people and getting their feedback on the non-technical aspects could be helpful (it sounds like you are nailing the technical stuff). Or you could record yourself answering expected questions and work on coming across amiably and confidently, as it fits your personality of course. Also, I'm not sure where your located, but my guess is that there may be some geographic/cultural differences in the severity of this issue. My impression is that in SF, one's current employment status is less important than other indicators.
- p4wnc6 10y ago
  I was living and working on the east coast in a major city for about the past 8 years, and feel that culturally I resonate more with urban lifestyle, tech & university hubs, etc. Sense of humor is important to me ... I'm one of those people who was raised on The Simpsons, despite how cliche it is and how much Sean & Hayes of Hollywood Handbook would mock me for saying so. The family situation has required me to move to the rural midwest to do full-time care and administration of a legal issue, provide childcare, and do many other things. I went to high school and college here, so I know the ropes, but it's not a place that I identify with or culturally fit into, and I think anyone who interacted with me for a few minutes would know that quickly. I will always continue practicing presentation skills, but confidence in public speaking and especially confidence in speaking clearly and precisely about the technical work I've done are things that come naturally to me. Firms from SF have been among the worst. The tech culture there just seems problematic and I think I would strongly prefer New York or Boston over SF, though for a good-fitting role, I'd consider really anywhere. But after interviewing with a lot of SF firms and getting feedback that either (a) they would not consider paying adequate relocation or (b) they would not consider someone who is not currently working, I just focused my search on different geographic regions. I tend to get a lot of first interviews based on my education and past experience, but after I answer questions about my current unemployment gap, it's like everyone just feels it's too complicated to bother fiddling with it at all and they just dismiss it without considering my skills.

by p4wnc6 10y ago

Kluny 10y ago

You've got to learn to avoid telling them that you're unemployed. Best way is to work for yourself. Assign yourself a project, pay yourself in equity, and work on it for a few hours each day. Rehearse telling people about it in such a way that it sounds like a legit job. That will be easier if you take it as seriously as a legit job.

p4wnc6 10y ago
In my case, I was required to relocate from a large east coast city back to my family's home in the rural Midwest, where I perform functions to care for a family circumstance and they take up effectively a full-time job's worth of hours every week. It's all I can do to continue exercising and cooking healthy meals. "Working" a full-time side project that yields no short-term income is wholly and entirely physically intractable in my current situation. Besides that, it would be very dishonest of me to downplay or fudge the explanation of my current period of unemployment. The family problem has been severe and required me to leave from a job, dedicate huge amount of time and money, and many other sacrifices. The only reason I could consider taking a new job is that the income would allow me to pay for people to take over the care duties I am currently personally performing. So the exact, real reasons for my unemployment are actually very relevant, important things for my next employer to understand and fundamentally be OK with.
- Kluny 10y ago
  Ah, I see. I think that still counts as work. If you've been saying "I've been off work" in interviews, that might not work, but it would be just as true to say "I've been working for my family."
  - p4wnc6 10y ago
    Yes, I do say this. Obviously you can't just vaguely say "I've been working" -- they will ask exactly what "work" you have been doing, which is when I explain just the bare minimum details of my family situation necessary for an employer. Most people interviewing me express a lot of compassion, say it's admirable to see someone sticking to help their family as I have, and then promptly reject me for not currently being employed.

dwaltrip 10y ago

That is a rough situation, and it sounds like you are hanging in there impressively. Hats off to you for that. I do have to agree with the other poster, I sounds like the big thing here is the framing of the situation, your presentation, and projecting confidence. Perhaps doing fake interviews with people and getting their feedback on the non-technical aspects could be helpful (it sounds like you are nailing the technical stuff). Or you could record yourself answering expected questions and work on coming across amiably and confidently, as it fits your personality of course. Also, I'm not sure where your located, but my guess is that there may be some geographic/cultural differences in the severity of this issue. My impression is that in SF, one's current employment status is less important than other indicators.

p4wnc6 10y ago
I was living and working on the east coast in a major city for about the past 8 years, and feel that culturally I resonate more with urban lifestyle, tech & university hubs, etc. Sense of humor is important to me ... I'm one of those people who was raised on The Simpsons, despite how cliche it is and how much Sean & Hayes of Hollywood Handbook would mock me for saying so. The family situation has required me to move to the rural midwest to do full-time care and administration of a legal issue, provide childcare, and do many other things. I went to high school and college here, so I know the ropes, but it's not a place that I identify with or culturally fit into, and I think anyone who interacted with me for a few minutes would know that quickly. I will always continue practicing presentation skills, but confidence in public speaking and especially confidence in speaking clearly and precisely about the technical work I've done are things that come naturally to me. Firms from SF have been among the worst. The tech culture there just seems problematic and I think I would strongly prefer New York or Boston over SF, though for a good-fitting role, I'd consider really anywhere. But after interviewing with a lot of SF firms and getting feedback that either (a) they would not consider paying adequate relocation or (b) they would not consider someone who is not currently working, I just focused my search on different geographic regions. I tend to get a lot of first interviews based on my education and past experience, but after I answer questions about my current unemployment gap, it's like everyone just feels it's too complicated to bother fiddling with it at all and they just dismiss it without considering my skills.