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For all the people in this thread who don't feel like they have solid ground to stand on one way or another (more specifically, other me's, middle class white d

For all the people in this thread who don't feel like they have solid ground to stand on one way or another (more specifically, other me's, middle class white dudes who are bothered by this but don't even know how to start approaching the situation), this book is single-handedly the best resource I've ever come across - "Between the World and Me" by Ta-Nehisi Coates. https://www.amazon.com/Between-World-Me-Ta-Nehisi-Coates/dp/0812993543 https://www.amazon.com/Between-World-Me-Ta-Nehisi-Coates/dp/... Give it a read/listen. It's incredible how many things will click into place, how drastically different you'll perceive the world before and after.

spraak 10y ago
Thanks, this is a great suggestion
deleted 10y ago
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JPKab 10y ago
I think the "middle class white dudes" issue is this: Unless you (like me) had parents who had some bad things happen to them financially, if you're parents knew what they were doing and had some form of means, you were probably successfully isolated from poverty growing up. This means that you're understanding of poverty will lack nuance. If you're one kind of person, you'll think its just bad parenting and bad culture. If you're another kind of person, you'll think it's external causes from racism, bad schools, etc. The fact of the matter is that most people I've encountered who actually grew up in and around poverty understand that Coates portrayal is heavily biased towards the "external" causes, as opposed to the other forms of literature heavily biased towards the "it's their fault they are poor." Why is this? Because there isn't really a market for the nuanced truth: It's a mix of both. I grew up in an extremely poor county with about 50% white/black, and most of both were poor. I went to the same schools, and watched some of my friends go down one path, while most went down the other, very bad path. The problem is people like you, whose parents did what I'm doing with my kids (keeping them away from these failing schools and bad neighborhoods), have no clue what's going on and are limited in your information to the two extremes of WHY this is happening. Why did two of the extremely smart, black male friends of mine growing up go down such extremely different paths? They both were poor, both highly intelligent, but one decided he wanted to fit in with the overly masculine cultural norms in black youth culture, while the other went down the path of escaping the trap of poverty by getting financial aid and going to a great public university. Their paths diverged in 8th grade. What book out there explains this, and if it exists, is there a market for it? Probably not.
dwoot 10y ago
And here I was thinking HN didn't have much soul. I'm so glad that you shared this. I will definitely give this a read or listen. I was born and raised in San Francisco and am first generation Chinese-American. However, as a son of working class parents, my friends and I have spent most of our lives growing up through the inner-city school system dominated by minorities -- black, Hispanic, Asian (mostly Chinese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, but no Korean or Japanese). While at the time, I couldn't understand the plights of those I went to school with, looking back, I can now see how difficult it was for them, particularly those who were African-American. And for those that make it out of the "hood," they face institutional racism. It's like an uphill battle. Even if somebody were to be in good spirits about it, only to be shot down over and over again, they'll eventually become frustrated. They begin to feel trapped in a nation they were born into that they, too, consider their own, but have parents that don't want them and/or hate them. I know how fortunate I am to be lumped into a group of "Asians" or "Chinese," where in this country, people discriminate across all lines -- be it racial, socioeconomic, attitudes, beliefs, etc. Whenever I see things like this and seeing people argue that their plights are just "sour grapes", and to, "stop playing the race card", really has no idea. And it's even more difficult to institute change in a system run by the privileged who have no idea what the lives of the poor are like. Nobody choose to be born black or into poverty. It's easy to say, "play the hand that you're dealt, when you've started with aces in the hole, or a favorable hand."

spraak 10y ago

Thanks, this is a great suggestion

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

JPKab 10y ago

I think the "middle class white dudes" issue is this: Unless you (like me) had parents who had some bad things happen to them financially, if you're parents knew what they were doing and had some form of means, you were probably successfully isolated from poverty growing up. This means that you're understanding of poverty will lack nuance. If you're one kind of person, you'll think its just bad parenting and bad culture. If you're another kind of person, you'll think it's external causes from racism, bad schools, etc. The fact of the matter is that most people I've encountered who actually grew up in and around poverty understand that Coates portrayal is heavily biased towards the "external" causes, as opposed to the other forms of literature heavily biased towards the "it's their fault they are poor." Why is this? Because there isn't really a market for the nuanced truth: It's a mix of both. I grew up in an extremely poor county with about 50% white/black, and most of both were poor. I went to the same schools, and watched some of my friends go down one path, while most went down the other, very bad path. The problem is people like you, whose parents did what I'm doing with my kids (keeping them away from these failing schools and bad neighborhoods), have no clue what's going on and are limited in your information to the two extremes of WHY this is happening. Why did two of the extremely smart, black male friends of mine growing up go down such extremely different paths? They both were poor, both highly intelligent, but one decided he wanted to fit in with the overly masculine cultural norms in black youth culture, while the other went down the path of escaping the trap of poverty by getting financial aid and going to a great public university. Their paths diverged in 8th grade. What book out there explains this, and if it exists, is there a market for it? Probably not.

dwoot 10y ago

And here I was thinking HN didn't have much soul. I'm so glad that you shared this. I will definitely give this a read or listen. I was born and raised in San Francisco and am first generation Chinese-American. However, as a son of working class parents, my friends and I have spent most of our lives growing up through the inner-city school system dominated by minorities -- black, Hispanic, Asian (mostly Chinese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, but no Korean or Japanese). While at the time, I couldn't understand the plights of those I went to school with, looking back, I can now see how difficult it was for them, particularly those who were African-American. And for those that make it out of the "hood," they face institutional racism. It's like an uphill battle. Even if somebody were to be in good spirits about it, only to be shot down over and over again, they'll eventually become frustrated. They begin to feel trapped in a nation they were born into that they, too, consider their own, but have parents that don't want them and/or hate them. I know how fortunate I am to be lumped into a group of "Asians" or "Chinese," where in this country, people discriminate across all lines -- be it racial, socioeconomic, attitudes, beliefs, etc. Whenever I see things like this and seeing people argue that their plights are just "sour grapes", and to, "stop playing the race card", really has no idea. And it's even more difficult to institute change in a system run by the privileged who have no idea what the lives of the poor are like. Nobody choose to be born black or into poverty. It's easy to say, "play the hand that you're dealt, when you've started with aces in the hole, or a favorable hand."