3 ms·

So they data mine this traffic at the nameserver level, just to reasonably say that DDG doesn't share info? Making it technically your computer sharing the info

So they data mine this traffic at the nameserver level, just to reasonably say that DDG doesn't share info? Making it technically your computer sharing the info, by way of their forced implementation? Seems like the ad blockers are making the right move here.

jsmthrowaway 10y ago
This comment is puzzling, since authoritative nameservers only see actual end-user traffic on an occasional basis given the cornucopia of resolver caches in near-unanimous use (as well as the fat TTL on the yahoo.net side of the delegation). This denies Yahoo! the reliable data that you seem to think they've successfully pulled over on everyone, at least if I understand your comment correctly which I'll admit I'm having a hard time doing. It's also an odd concern given that most everybody these days uses Google or their ISP's resolvers which would be far more interesting "nameserver level data mining." (I have a hard time believing Google successfully logs that traffic in detail, however.)
- madeofpalk 10y ago
  Just being devils advocate here, but wouldn't the cache rate be more or less uniform and able to be interpolated out into real traffic numbers? If yahoo observes that every 1 in 3 yahoo.com requests in NS lookups then they could still figure out the traffic? In practice.... i doubt this is valuable data at all.
  - jsmthrowaway 10y ago
    I can't grok what you're asking me but I'm almost certain the answer is no, as you've already inferred. Extrapolating DNS analytics to actionable intel is incredibly misleading in nearly every case on the service side, particularly since there are a number of caches that consider TTL a guideline and since large shared caches are commonplace. Understanding what your company is doing if you run the resolver is where it makes more sense. But on the service side? You might as well hire a cat to report metrics by pawing a ouija board, and then you at least get cuddles with your random numbers. Think of it this way: DNS is basically a different form of ARP, in a certain manner of speaking. I wouldn't try to quantify performance data from either except to troubleshoot operations.
nl 10y ago
So they data mine this traffic at the nameserver level, just to reasonably say that DDG doesn't share info? What does this mean? If you mean nameservers might get to see your IP, that isn't true. At most they'll see your primary DNS resolver's IP, but if you use Google DNS or Open DNS they will only see that (I've implemented CDNs, and this is a very big problem for them if they operate at the DNS level - which most do).
- ForHackernews 10y ago
  > if you use Google DNS > Afraid to give Google my search queries >> I'll give them all of my DNS lookups instead
  - nl 10y ago
    So... don't? Just use your default ISP resolvers? Depending on what threat you are trying to avoid there are options here. The OPs threat assessment was wrong, though.

jsmthrowaway 10y ago

This comment is puzzling, since authoritative nameservers only see actual end-user traffic on an occasional basis given the cornucopia of resolver caches in near-unanimous use (as well as the fat TTL on the yahoo.net side of the delegation). This denies Yahoo! the reliable data that you seem to think they've successfully pulled over on everyone, at least if I understand your comment correctly which I'll admit I'm having a hard time doing. It's also an odd concern given that most everybody these days uses Google or their ISP's resolvers which would be far more interesting "nameserver level data mining." (I have a hard time believing Google successfully logs that traffic in detail, however.)

madeofpalk 10y ago
Just being devils advocate here, but wouldn't the cache rate be more or less uniform and able to be interpolated out into real traffic numbers? If yahoo observes that every 1 in 3 yahoo.com requests in NS lookups then they could still figure out the traffic? In practice.... i doubt this is valuable data at all.
- jsmthrowaway 10y ago
  I can't grok what you're asking me but I'm almost certain the answer is no, as you've already inferred. Extrapolating DNS analytics to actionable intel is incredibly misleading in nearly every case on the service side, particularly since there are a number of caches that consider TTL a guideline and since large shared caches are commonplace. Understanding what your company is doing if you run the resolver is where it makes more sense. But on the service side? You might as well hire a cat to report metrics by pawing a ouija board, and then you at least get cuddles with your random numbers. Think of it this way: DNS is basically a different form of ARP, in a certain manner of speaking. I wouldn't try to quantify performance data from either except to troubleshoot operations.

nl 10y ago

So they data mine this traffic at the nameserver level, just to reasonably say that DDG doesn't share info? What does this mean? If you mean nameservers might get to see your IP, that isn't true. At most they'll see your primary DNS resolver's IP, but if you use Google DNS or Open DNS they will only see that (I've implemented CDNs, and this is a very big problem for them if they operate at the DNS level - which most do).

ForHackernews 10y ago
> if you use Google DNS > Afraid to give Google my search queries >> I'll give them all of my DNS lookups instead
- nl 10y ago
  So... don't? Just use your default ISP resolvers? Depending on what threat you are trying to avoid there are options here. The OPs threat assessment was wrong, though.