6 ms·

The “Other” Side Is Not Dumb

41 points by juanplusjuan 10y ago

Pinatubo 10y ago
I'm voting for Donald Trump.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- mac01021 10y ago
  How did you arrive at this decision?
eggy 10y ago
It's exactly this. Social media and TV pundits using the words 'dumb, idiots, clueless' all the while Trump stayed in the race and Brexit became a 'Yes'. The elites have deluded themselves. I stopped counting the times 'idiots' was used in the HN responses to the NYT article about the future ranking of London as a financial capital in reference to the Leave voters. Personally I would love to see the news the day after Trump becomes POTUS. Not because I agree with him, but solely for the ensuing disruption, resetting of people's assumptions, and fresh debate not mired in what the status quo have taken for granted. Also, I truly think Hillary is not a great alternative either, so bring on the disruption.
- collyw 10y ago
  First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Seems to apply to Trump.
wrong_variable 10y ago
The Labour Movement in the 1930s-1950s was a force to reckon with. Politicians used to be scared of its influence. Imagine how much power labour had when FDR was able to enact a tax rate 90% of top marginal income. That force was destroyed, but just like a nuclear submarine lying idly by, just because the engine is switched off or silent doesn't mean it cannot do a lot of damage. Right now a lot of people are quite enraged because they are empirically on the losing side of globalization. It would be a sad day if they hand their collective power over to Mr Trump - its a repetition of situations of the past where labour gave its power to other bigots or strongmens - rather than people like FDR or Lenin.
- Fjolsvith 10y ago
  "Right now a lot of people are quite enraged because they are empirically on the losing side of globalization." What people? Is this statement presented as fact? Personally, I am fed up with there not being a strong man at the helm.
  - Fjolsvith 10y ago
    And maybe the Healthcare industry bloat has something to do with it too.
atemerev 10y ago
I am a pro-capitalist "market solves everything" person and Ayn Rand admirer. Now I enjoy speaking with (and, most importantly, listening to) Bernie Sanders supporters to understand them better. I am also open for inquiries from the other side. :)
- progressive_dad 10y ago
  Do you distinguish between truly competitive capitalism and modern acquisition based growth? I will admit I only know about these topics from exchanges with peers such as this and haven't made it a study. I feel that modern capitalism... What I would call, "Militaristic" capitalism eliminates competition in the market, foments monopolistic practices, but drives global market growth and competition. How would you describe your views on competition in the market and whether monopolies are desirable or inevitable in today's market?
  - atemerev 10y ago
    Natural monopolies are OK, as long as they are not coercive (i.e. use laws, lobbying and other non-market means to cement their established position). Free market natural monopolies are usually short-lived — they might enjoy the economies of scale, but this advantage rapidly becomes offset by their bureaucratic inefficiencies. When combined with coercive forces of the government, the ineffective monopoly might stay on the market much longer than can be warranted by competency only. Therefore, revolving door-type monopolies are bad and ought to be disrupted, including by legal means.
    - progressive_dad 10y ago
      When is lobbying appropriate in your view? Is it the responsibility of government to facilitate the opening of new markets, for instance? As with TTIP? How do you square a free market with a global economy where free markets are not the norm? How do you compete with state owned and operated business? Do you let these companies participate in your free market? Are there any other instances you can imagine besides preventing revolving door monopolies where regulation might be appropriate? *Your ideas don't sound very different from the form of capitalism practiced in America today which is a pretty far cry from the extreme ideas about free-market libertarian ideals I'm used to from fans of Ayn Rand. What are some principles you find appealing in her writing?

41 points by juanplusjuan 10y ago

Pinatubo 10y ago

I'm voting for Donald Trump.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
mac01021 10y ago
How did you arrive at this decision?

eggy 10y ago

It's exactly this. Social media and TV pundits using the words 'dumb, idiots, clueless' all the while Trump stayed in the race and Brexit became a 'Yes'. The elites have deluded themselves. I stopped counting the times 'idiots' was used in the HN responses to the NYT article about the future ranking of London as a financial capital in reference to the Leave voters. Personally I would love to see the news the day after Trump becomes POTUS. Not because I agree with him, but solely for the ensuing disruption, resetting of people's assumptions, and fresh debate not mired in what the status quo have taken for granted. Also, I truly think Hillary is not a great alternative either, so bring on the disruption.

collyw 10y ago
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Seems to apply to Trump.

wrong_variable 10y ago

The Labour Movement in the 1930s-1950s was a force to reckon with. Politicians used to be scared of its influence. Imagine how much power labour had when FDR was able to enact a tax rate 90% of top marginal income. That force was destroyed, but just like a nuclear submarine lying idly by, just because the engine is switched off or silent doesn't mean it cannot do a lot of damage. Right now a lot of people are quite enraged because they are empirically on the losing side of globalization. It would be a sad day if they hand their collective power over to Mr Trump - its a repetition of situations of the past where labour gave its power to other bigots or strongmens - rather than people like FDR or Lenin.

Fjolsvith 10y ago
"Right now a lot of people are quite enraged because they are empirically on the losing side of globalization." What people? Is this statement presented as fact? Personally, I am fed up with there not being a strong man at the helm.
- Fjolsvith 10y ago
  And maybe the Healthcare industry bloat has something to do with it too.

atemerev 10y ago

I am a pro-capitalist "market solves everything" person and Ayn Rand admirer. Now I enjoy speaking with (and, most importantly, listening to) Bernie Sanders supporters to understand them better. I am also open for inquiries from the other side. :)

progressive_dad 10y ago
Do you distinguish between truly competitive capitalism and modern acquisition based growth? I will admit I only know about these topics from exchanges with peers such as this and haven't made it a study. I feel that modern capitalism... What I would call, "Militaristic" capitalism eliminates competition in the market, foments monopolistic practices, but drives global market growth and competition. How would you describe your views on competition in the market and whether monopolies are desirable or inevitable in today's market?
- atemerev 10y ago
  Natural monopolies are OK, as long as they are not coercive (i.e. use laws, lobbying and other non-market means to cement their established position). Free market natural monopolies are usually short-lived — they might enjoy the economies of scale, but this advantage rapidly becomes offset by their bureaucratic inefficiencies. When combined with coercive forces of the government, the ineffective monopoly might stay on the market much longer than can be warranted by competency only. Therefore, revolving door-type monopolies are bad and ought to be disrupted, including by legal means.
  - progressive_dad 10y ago
    When is lobbying appropriate in your view? Is it the responsibility of government to facilitate the opening of new markets, for instance? As with TTIP? How do you square a free market with a global economy where free markets are not the norm? How do you compete with state owned and operated business? Do you let these companies participate in your free market? Are there any other instances you can imagine besides preventing revolving door monopolies where regulation might be appropriate? *Your ideas don't sound very different from the form of capitalism practiced in America today which is a pretty far cry from the extreme ideas about free-market libertarian ideals I'm used to from fans of Ayn Rand. What are some principles you find appealing in her writing?