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I'm describing a scientific experiment that goes something like this: 1. Collect N voice samples from N people, and ask M people to classify whether each sampl

I'm describing a scientific experiment that goes something like this: 1. Collect N voice samples from N people, and ask M people to classify whether each sample is 'black' or 'not black'. Don't tell the N people exactly how the rest of the experiment is being run, to avoid people intentionally trying to sound different. 2. Define a 'black index' for each of the N people that is the percentage of M people who voted "Sounds like a black person" over (the average percentage of "Sounds like a black person" for the N candidates as a whole). The denominator is said to be the "baseline" percentage. 3. I predict that the black index is positively correlated with frequency-of-fines. I'll further predict that white people with a higher black index are fined more than black people with a lower black index.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago
Something like this was done with resumes from black- versus nonblack-sounding names [1]: "Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback. This would suggest either employer prejudice or employer perception that race signals lower productivity. The 50 percent gap in callback rates is statistically very significant...a white name yields as many more callbacks as an additional eight years of experience. Race, the authors add, also affects the reward to having a better resume. Whites with higher quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower quality resumes. But the positive impact of a better resume for those with Africa-American names was much smaller." [1] http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html
- steveeq1 10y ago
  There have been similar studies showing that shorter/uglier people tend to get hired less than their taller/better looking counterparts - for the same skillset. Yet society, in the United States anyway, seem to be less concerned about this particular bias, even though it is just as "unfair". I think the exact things society pays attention to as unfair are largely arbitrary and cultural. Racial biases don't nearly concern me nearly as much "incentive biases", which I feel does far more harm to society overall, yet most people strangely do not pay it much mind.
  - gnaritas 10y ago
    > There have been similar studies showing that shorter/uglier people tend to get hired less than their taller/better looking counterparts This is a red herring, this is not relevant to a discussion about racism. That other forms of discrimination exist doesn't justify in any way racial discrimination.
- Wildgoose 10y ago
  I agree that this is a problem, but are you sure it isn't simply a class issue? So someone with the name "Fiona" is probably middle-class and someone called "Tiara" is probably from a much lower class. It might not say anything at all about the relative worth of the individuals concerned, but it is the kind of social cue that will be picked up (possibly sub-consciously) by those having to sift through a large pile of applicants in order to produce an interview short-list. The fact that this reaction actually says more about those having the reaction is beside the point.
runako 10y ago
I'm not sure what point you're arguing. It sounds like you're suggesting (between this post and an ancestor) that it's okay for the power of the state to be wielded against people whose accents are not in favor. But you can't actually be suggesting that, so what's the actual point you're trying to make? As a bonus, could you connect this to the types of fines primarily covered in TFA (traffic tickets)? These fines are not assessed via telephone calls. How is any of your argument relevant to the practice of armed police officers driving to predominantly African-American areas to pull over moving vehicles for minor infractions, for the explicit purpose of generating revenue?
pessimizer 10y ago
You're seeing that black people are being fined, and proposing that things that make black people distinct from white people are the problem. Your evidence for this thesis is the faint voice wafting up from your own ass. Was slavery caused by the thickness of black people's lips, or the wideness of their noses? I tried to keep away from this thread, but since my puzzled comment in lieu of a downvote was itself being furiously downvoted, I thought it might be important to tell you that your comment is controversial, yet supported by your average HN reader. You should probably follow it up with a comment on how the size of womens' breasts are what's keeping them out of tech, and how you predict that with testosterone treatments, they could be fixed of their fear of logical thinking. That I continue to be hired in this industry is a miracle. It's probably just people afraid of being sued. No wonder I feel like I have to be twice as good as everyone else.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

Something like this was done with resumes from black- versus nonblack-sounding names [1]: "Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback. This would suggest either employer prejudice or employer perception that race signals lower productivity. The 50 percent gap in callback rates is statistically very significant...a white name yields as many more callbacks as an additional eight years of experience. Race, the authors add, also affects the reward to having a better resume. Whites with higher quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower quality resumes. But the positive impact of a better resume for those with Africa-American names was much smaller." [1] http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html

steveeq1 10y ago
There have been similar studies showing that shorter/uglier people tend to get hired less than their taller/better looking counterparts - for the same skillset. Yet society, in the United States anyway, seem to be less concerned about this particular bias, even though it is just as "unfair". I think the exact things society pays attention to as unfair are largely arbitrary and cultural. Racial biases don't nearly concern me nearly as much "incentive biases", which I feel does far more harm to society overall, yet most people strangely do not pay it much mind.
- gnaritas 10y ago
  > There have been similar studies showing that shorter/uglier people tend to get hired less than their taller/better looking counterparts This is a red herring, this is not relevant to a discussion about racism. That other forms of discrimination exist doesn't justify in any way racial discrimination.
Wildgoose 10y ago
I agree that this is a problem, but are you sure it isn't simply a class issue? So someone with the name "Fiona" is probably middle-class and someone called "Tiara" is probably from a much lower class. It might not say anything at all about the relative worth of the individuals concerned, but it is the kind of social cue that will be picked up (possibly sub-consciously) by those having to sift through a large pile of applicants in order to produce an interview short-list. The fact that this reaction actually says more about those having the reaction is beside the point.

runako 10y ago

I'm not sure what point you're arguing. It sounds like you're suggesting (between this post and an ancestor) that it's okay for the power of the state to be wielded against people whose accents are not in favor. But you can't actually be suggesting that, so what's the actual point you're trying to make? As a bonus, could you connect this to the types of fines primarily covered in TFA (traffic tickets)? These fines are not assessed via telephone calls. How is any of your argument relevant to the practice of armed police officers driving to predominantly African-American areas to pull over moving vehicles for minor infractions, for the explicit purpose of generating revenue?

pessimizer 10y ago

You're seeing that black people are being fined, and proposing that things that make black people distinct from white people are the problem. Your evidence for this thesis is the faint voice wafting up from your own ass. Was slavery caused by the thickness of black people's lips, or the wideness of their noses? I tried to keep away from this thread, but since my puzzled comment in lieu of a downvote was itself being furiously downvoted, I thought it might be important to tell you that your comment is controversial, yet supported by your average HN reader. You should probably follow it up with a comment on how the size of womens' breasts are what's keeping them out of tech, and how you predict that with testosterone treatments, they could be fixed of their fear of logical thinking. That I continue to be hired in this industry is a miracle. It's probably just people afraid of being sued. No wonder I feel like I have to be twice as good as everyone else.