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Exactly what standard do you hold beta features before release? For the sake of the future of humanity, we can't get into a situation where nothing new is allow

by fdsaaf 10y ago

Exactly what standard do you hold beta features before release? For the sake of the future of humanity, we can't get into a situation where nothing new is allowed so long as someone, somewhere might get hurt.

ceejayoz 10y ago
> Exactly what standard do you hold beta features before release? With stuff that could easily kill you? If it were a drug, there'd be an ethical review and progressively larger trials in carefully selected groups of people receiving informed consent. Something like that might be more appropriate than "your car just updated! enjoy!" beta software.
- fdsaaf 10y ago
  You didn't answer the question.
  - ceejayoz 10y ago
    Well, it's going to depend on the feature. Slightly improved UI on the radio's touchscreen is a bit different from Tesla's autopilot. In the case of autopilot, I'd say similar to a drug study, as it's something that can cause serious harm or death to the human subjects involved. Tesla should have an IRB for ethical monitoring, there should be a small trial group initially (and very gradual rollouts to larger groups), participants should receive informed consent at a Tesla store with emphasis on the risks and what's necessary to use the feature safely, and someone should have the authority to pull the plug on the study if it proves too dangerous. Given the state autopilot is reportedly in, I'd say right now no one should be using it without an in-person training at a Tesla store to emphasize the proper usage of it.
    - fdsaaf 10y ago
      Your small-group drug study would have reported zero incidents in this instance.
      - ceejayoz 10y ago
        That's highly unlikely. Deaths aren't the only incidents you'd report in a drug study. Other adverse events are important, too. Tesla's one-in-130M-miles number isn't dealing with the fact that there are likely to be many, many more near misses, non-fatal accidents, times the car can't handle stuff and hands over control, etc. With a proper trial, Tesla would have to document and report the number of times the radar missed semi trailers, the number of times the driver had to disengage and brake sharply, etc.
- fdsaaf 10y ago
  First of all, given the number of miles Teslas have driven before this incident, any study would have seen zero accidents. Second, drug studies are also too cautious, and many useful drugs are denied to the public on the basis of rare and tolerable side effects. (For example, look at weight loss drugs.)
  - ceejayoz 10y ago
    Zero fatal accidents, but I suspect such a trial would've revealed a lot of near misses and other "adverse events" with the autopilot. There are certainly plenty of YouTube videos - I recall seeing one where it tries to jerk into oncoming traffic. I'd be interested in specific weight loss drug examples. There are a number of them available on the market right now.

by fdsaaf 10y ago

ceejayoz 10y ago

> Exactly what standard do you hold beta features before release? With stuff that could easily kill you? If it were a drug, there'd be an ethical review and progressively larger trials in carefully selected groups of people receiving informed consent. Something like that might be more appropriate than "your car just updated! enjoy!" beta software.

fdsaaf 10y ago
You didn't answer the question.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  Well, it's going to depend on the feature. Slightly improved UI on the radio's touchscreen is a bit different from Tesla's autopilot. In the case of autopilot, I'd say similar to a drug study, as it's something that can cause serious harm or death to the human subjects involved. Tesla should have an IRB for ethical monitoring, there should be a small trial group initially (and very gradual rollouts to larger groups), participants should receive informed consent at a Tesla store with emphasis on the risks and what's necessary to use the feature safely, and someone should have the authority to pull the plug on the study if it proves too dangerous. Given the state autopilot is reportedly in, I'd say right now no one should be using it without an in-person training at a Tesla store to emphasize the proper usage of it.
  - fdsaaf 10y ago
    Your small-group drug study would have reported zero incidents in this instance.
    - ceejayoz 10y ago
      That's highly unlikely. Deaths aren't the only incidents you'd report in a drug study. Other adverse events are important, too. Tesla's one-in-130M-miles number isn't dealing with the fact that there are likely to be many, many more near misses, non-fatal accidents, times the car can't handle stuff and hands over control, etc. With a proper trial, Tesla would have to document and report the number of times the radar missed semi trailers, the number of times the driver had to disengage and brake sharply, etc.
fdsaaf 10y ago
First of all, given the number of miles Teslas have driven before this incident, any study would have seen zero accidents. Second, drug studies are also too cautious, and many useful drugs are denied to the public on the basis of rare and tolerable side effects. (For example, look at weight loss drugs.)
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  Zero fatal accidents, but I suspect such a trial would've revealed a lot of near misses and other "adverse events" with the autopilot. There are certainly plenty of YouTube videos - I recall seeing one where it tries to jerk into oncoming traffic. I'd be interested in specific weight loss drug examples. There are a number of them available on the market right now.