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> In the blog post, Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it I absolutely disag

> In the blog post, Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it I absolutely disagree with this, and it should not be used as a 'get out' clause from Tesla. If you work with non-technical people on technical issues on a day to day basis you'll understand why - non-technical people literally don't understand what stuff like this means. They'll read it, then say 'Oh but they installed it in my car anyway so it must be safe', and use it anyway.

gshulegaard 10y ago
Beware clickbait and intentional inflammatory posturing. I noticed The Verge selectively quoted Tesla without directly linking to the source (although it was part of Elon's tweet): https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tragic-loss https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tragic-loss The full context of the agreement: "It is important to note that Tesla disables Autopilot by default and requires explicit acknowledgement that the system is new technology and still in a public beta phase before it can be enabled. When drivers activate Autopilot, the acknowledgment box explains, among other things, that Autopilot “is an assist feature that requires you to keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times," and that "you need to maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle” while using it. Additionally, every time that Autopilot is engaged, the car reminds the driver to “Always keep your hands on the wheel. Be prepared to take over at any time.” The system also makes frequent checks to ensure that the driver's hands remain on the wheel and provides visual and audible alerts if hands-on is not detected. It then gradually slows down the car until hands-on is detected again." So the key here is that Tesla autopilot is a driver assist but is positioned such that the driver needs to remain alert and able to assume control of the vehicle at any moment. So when it is said, "Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed..." it is critical to note that ultimately the driver failed to control their vehicle. Personally, I find this reasonable.
- saulrh 10y ago
  > The system also makes frequent checks to ensure that the driver's hands remain on the wheel and provides visual and audible alerts if hands-on is not detected. It then gradually slows down the car until hands-on is detected again I don't care much about the user agreement, but this should mean that the driver had their hands on the wheel when this happened. Does we know if it requires both hands on the wheel, or can you placate the car with one hand while you read reddit with the other?
  - gshulegaard 10y ago
    Seeing as I have seen videos of drivers sleeping in traffic with autopilot engaged, I imagine there may be a way to evade/circumvent this check entirely. So your question is sound, and I don't know the answer...but saying "A distracted driver ran into a truck trailer" is less catchy.
    - tim333 10y ago
      It seems the drive was watching Harry Potter on a video player. Not sure if he was touching the steering wheel. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/01/tesla-autopilot-crash-driver-was-watching-harry-potter-movie-wit/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/01/tesla-autopilot-c...
- YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
  Imagine Carmaker X has a secret switch on their cars that a driver may pull to completely disable their breaks. The switch has no utility, eg it's not there for use by service technicians. It's only there so you can see how far you can go while driving without breaks. Would it make any difference if the switch came with a big angry red sticker saying "DON'T PULL THIS SWITCH UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING"? It's a setting that can get you killed. There's no other reason to have it other than to risk getting killed (presumably because some people enjoy this kind of thing). Warning or no warning makes no difference at all. There's no justification for having a thing like that on anyone's car.
dogma1138 10y ago
They can put anything they want in the EULA it doesn't means it would stand up scrutiny in the court of law. Autopilot features are in a grey area now since they are very new but Tesla is still responsible regardless of what they claim to be. Seatbelts and Airbags were also in "beta phase" at some point, and more likely than not some people got killed by a deploying airbag in it's early days or by a seatbelt with a shoddy release function before everything was standardized but you could still sue for compensation in those incidents as well.
- YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
  Seatbelts and airbags are safety features designed to protect you during an accident, as in given an accident has already happened. "Autopilot" is a system that takes control of the car away from the driver. As such there's no comparison to safety features and in fact it's rather the opposite: it's a system that makes driving a lot more dangerous than it normally is. (Unless the system is much better at driving than the human driver, which it most definitely is not).
  - Too 10y ago
    An airbag accidentally deploying while driving could lead to loss of control of the vehicle, there have been such cases. It is not given that an accident has already happened.

gshulegaard 10y ago

Beware clickbait and intentional inflammatory posturing. I noticed The Verge selectively quoted Tesla without directly linking to the source (although it was part of Elon's tweet): https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tragic-loss https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tragic-loss The full context of the agreement: "It is important to note that Tesla disables Autopilot by default and requires explicit acknowledgement that the system is new technology and still in a public beta phase before it can be enabled. When drivers activate Autopilot, the acknowledgment box explains, among other things, that Autopilot “is an assist feature that requires you to keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times," and that "you need to maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle” while using it. Additionally, every time that Autopilot is engaged, the car reminds the driver to “Always keep your hands on the wheel. Be prepared to take over at any time.” The system also makes frequent checks to ensure that the driver's hands remain on the wheel and provides visual and audible alerts if hands-on is not detected. It then gradually slows down the car until hands-on is detected again." So the key here is that Tesla autopilot is a driver assist but is positioned such that the driver needs to remain alert and able to assume control of the vehicle at any moment. So when it is said, "Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed..." it is critical to note that ultimately the driver failed to control their vehicle. Personally, I find this reasonable.

saulrh 10y ago
> The system also makes frequent checks to ensure that the driver's hands remain on the wheel and provides visual and audible alerts if hands-on is not detected. It then gradually slows down the car until hands-on is detected again I don't care much about the user agreement, but this should mean that the driver had their hands on the wheel when this happened. Does we know if it requires both hands on the wheel, or can you placate the car with one hand while you read reddit with the other?
- gshulegaard 10y ago
  Seeing as I have seen videos of drivers sleeping in traffic with autopilot engaged, I imagine there may be a way to evade/circumvent this check entirely. So your question is sound, and I don't know the answer...but saying "A distracted driver ran into a truck trailer" is less catchy.
  - tim333 10y ago
    It seems the drive was watching Harry Potter on a video player. Not sure if he was touching the steering wheel. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/01/tesla-autopilot-crash-driver-was-watching-harry-potter-movie-wit/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/01/tesla-autopilot-c...
YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
Imagine Carmaker X has a secret switch on their cars that a driver may pull to completely disable their breaks. The switch has no utility, eg it's not there for use by service technicians. It's only there so you can see how far you can go while driving without breaks. Would it make any difference if the switch came with a big angry red sticker saying "DON'T PULL THIS SWITCH UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING"? It's a setting that can get you killed. There's no other reason to have it other than to risk getting killed (presumably because some people enjoy this kind of thing). Warning or no warning makes no difference at all. There's no justification for having a thing like that on anyone's car.

dogma1138 10y ago

They can put anything they want in the EULA it doesn't means it would stand up scrutiny in the court of law. Autopilot features are in a grey area now since they are very new but Tesla is still responsible regardless of what they claim to be. Seatbelts and Airbags were also in "beta phase" at some point, and more likely than not some people got killed by a deploying airbag in it's early days or by a seatbelt with a shoddy release function before everything was standardized but you could still sue for compensation in those incidents as well.

YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
Seatbelts and airbags are safety features designed to protect you during an accident, as in given an accident has already happened. "Autopilot" is a system that takes control of the car away from the driver. As such there's no comparison to safety features and in fact it's rather the opposite: it's a system that makes driving a lot more dangerous than it normally is. (Unless the system is much better at driving than the human driver, which it most definitely is not).
- Too 10y ago
  An airbag accidentally deploying while driving could lead to loss of control of the vehicle, there have been such cases. It is not given that an accident has already happened.