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I thought the U stood for universal. If you take it back in new taxes, it's just a transfer program from productive to non-productive.

by wang_li 10y ago

maxerickson 10y ago
It often stands for unconditional.
thaumasiotes 10y ago
It's a transfer from productive to non-productive under all possible setups. How were you imagining it would be funded?
deathanatos 10y ago
But I have to echo eanzenberg's comment, > How do you reconcile the massive increase in spending this would cause? If you're giving each person $13k/yr, does that not imply that you must then collect $13k/yr/person in taxes? Unless you're thinking it is all going to come from corporate taxes, then at least some of it must come from a citizen's taxes, no? (and if you do think this should come from corporations, do you not think that would have an effect on what gets passed to an employee? Why not pay a person $13k/yr less? — or more, since some people won't/can't work and we must cover them too?) I have no idea if UBI is a good idea or not … but if people want to do it, I expect to know how it will be paid for.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  You can just print the money or otherwise conjure it into existence. For instance, by telling banks to change numbers in their databases. It probably isn't a good idea, but it's possible.
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    That's still a transfer from productive people to unproductive people. It just takes the specific form of hyperinflation. There is no difference between taxing everyone 20% of their holdings, and printing yourself 25% of everyone else's holdings. Either way you end up with a fifth of the wealth, and everyone's purchasing power goes down so yours can go up.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      Yeah, I get that. It still has economic impact. But you don't have to explicitly account for the payouts with receipts, which the post I replied to seemed to think was necessary.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Retric 10y ago
So is prison, social security, food stamps etc. considering we have a very large and expensive system it's worth looking into improvements.

I thought the U stood for universal. If you take it back in new taxes, it's just a transfer program from productive to non-productive.

by wang_li 10y ago

I thought the U stood for universal. If you take it back in new taxes, it's just a transfer program from productive to non-productive.

maxerickson 10y ago

It often stands for unconditional.

thaumasiotes 10y ago

It's a transfer from productive to non-productive under all possible setups. How were you imagining it would be funded?

deathanatos 10y ago

But I have to echo eanzenberg's comment, > How do you reconcile the massive increase in spending this would cause? If you're giving each person $13k/yr, does that not imply that you must then collect $13k/yr/person in taxes? Unless you're thinking it is all going to come from corporate taxes, then at least some of it must come from a citizen's taxes, no? (and if you do think this should come from corporations, do you not think that would have an effect on what gets passed to an employee? Why not pay a person $13k/yr less? — or more, since some people won't/can't work and we must cover them too?) I have no idea if UBI is a good idea or not … but if people want to do it, I expect to know how it will be paid for.

maxerickson 10y ago
You can just print the money or otherwise conjure it into existence. For instance, by telling banks to change numbers in their databases. It probably isn't a good idea, but it's possible.
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  That's still a transfer from productive people to unproductive people. It just takes the specific form of hyperinflation. There is no difference between taxing everyone 20% of their holdings, and printing yourself 25% of everyone else's holdings. Either way you end up with a fifth of the wealth, and everyone's purchasing power goes down so yours can go up.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    Yeah, I get that. It still has economic impact. But you don't have to explicitly account for the payouts with receipts, which the post I replied to seemed to think was necessary.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Retric 10y ago

So is prison, social security, food stamps etc. considering we have a very large and expensive system it's worth looking into improvements.