7 ms·

"You asked me several times if I’m a man or a woman. I’m a man. I’ve never met a female hacker of the highest level. Girls, don’t get offended, I love you." Oo

by awinder 10y ago

"You asked me several times if I’m a man or a woman. I’m a man. I’ve never met a female hacker of the highest level. Girls, don’t get offended, I love you." Oof.

tomp 10y ago
A more reasonable and useful response would be to point out a counter-example.
- scottlocklin 10y ago
  Can you point out a counter-example?
- eli 10y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte_(virus_writer) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte_(virus_writer) I don't know what "highest level" means, but I'm not convinced that Guccifer 2.0 is unusually skilled.
  - tomp 10y ago
    Thanks!
- mikeyouse 10y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_Rutkowska https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_Rutkowska
  - tomp 10y ago
    Thanks!
- EthanHeilman 10y ago
  Debating the notion of who is a "hacker of the highest level" would be a silly waste of time and is totally subjective and unquantifiable. Are important or highly talented programmers/engineers hackers (not this again)? Is someone who writes clever exploits but doesn't break into networks a hacker? What about a great social engineer with limited technical skills? Or cryptologists? In some of these categories the better you are the fewer people know you exist? The very fact Juice2.0 brings it up reflects poorly on them (assuming this post isn't just disinformation which it could very well be).
  - cloakandswagger 10y ago
    "Someone made a statement that doesn't coincide with my worldview? Quick, move those goalposts!"
cloakandswagger 10y ago
Oof? Every other day on HackerNews I see a new post about the dearth of women in tech and how dire the "shortage" is. If there are substantially fewer women in tech, why is it unreasonable to think there are practically no skilled female hackers? (And note that when I use the term 'hacker' I'm referring to the illegal, blackhat variety, not the 'I turned my oven into a WiFi hotspot!' kind)
- mikeash 10y ago
  Two reasons come to mind. First, "there aren't many" is vastly different statement from "there aren't any." It's not clear which category "I've never met" falls into, but it's easy to take it the wrong way. Second, that whole thing is completely unnecessary. The answer could end at "I'm a man" and be done. He seems to feel a need not only to state his maleness, but to point out that the question is stupid because it's not possible for him to be a women given his skill.
  - cloakandswagger 10y ago
    I didn't think it was too irrelevant. He resolves the question of his gender, and then responds with his own personal observation that skilled female hackers are a rarity. Why is there such an embargo on talking about the differences between genders? The only times it is permissible is if you're talking about how women are either superior or discriminated against in some respect.
    - soundwave106 10y ago
      One reason, perhaps, is that too many "differences between genders" discussions (whether it's from one side or the other) devolve into unhelpful discussions about confirmation-bias style "superiority" or "discrimination" and the like. Discussions that try to honestly determine more fact-based reasons for the differences (whether it be biological reasons or social constructs) are rather rare. In this case, that observation was part of a "I have strong hacking skills" boast. So more "oof" for the awful overall tone. I personally suspect a bit of Dunning–Kruger here. My hunch is, while it is true that women in infosec are rare, there probably are women in infosec that have quite a bit stronger skillset than this guy.
jakobegger 10y ago
If you take this part, the references about Terminator and Rambo, and the complaints that Clinton 'didn't earn any money herself' (does he mean because she is was just the presidents wife?), and the admiration for Trump paint a pretty clear picture in my mind. I agree with the others here that middle European mid-thirties sounds likely. I'll add single and frustrated -- because of the sexist comments. From what he wrote on this page, he seems to know just as much about the US elections as an average well informed European would know, so that part sounds plausible. Nothing here sounds like the work of a state actor; a solo script kiddie sounds like the best explanation. For some reason I believe almost everything in this FAQ; Occam's razor and all.
- tehayj 10y ago
  Besides the US no other country is so picky about "sexist" comments. This is a completely normal attitude in other cultures and not sexist at all (for them, might still be sexist for you).
  - jakobegger 10y ago
    It doesn't matter if you consider the comments 'sexist' or not; they just don't sound like they were made by someone in a happy relationship. (Also, I'm not from the US)
nickpsecurity 10y ago
Yeah, he's an idiot or trolling. There's a few on this list... first Google result I found... that make him look positively amateur if we're talking likely skill required for results achieved: http://www.computersciencedegreehub.com/10-notorious-female-hackers/ http://www.computersciencedegreehub.com/10-notorious-female-... A few are new to me for some reason (maybe memory loss). I particularly respect the ones from 80's-90's as one had to put more work into learning the craft back then. It was a combo of information scattered across BBS's plus lots of experimentation alone and in groups.
- undersuit 10y ago
  Or he just never met any one of the list.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    It's possible but his wording makes me think never looked is more accurate. A reasonable person deciding an issue like this might observe something like "all great hackers I've seen are men" but will do some research before saying "only men are great hackers." That he takes time to push the claim without one Google to test it suggests some form of bad character or judgment at play. ;)
    - undersuit 10y ago
      Does it suggest anything? Aren't you the one making suggestions? This isn't about Googling anything, he states he hasn't met any woman hackers at the highest level. Maybe prove that wrong or misguided instead of casting shade and suspicion that the man is a misogynist.
      - nickpsecurity 10y ago
        "You asked me several times if I’m a man or a woman. I’m a man. I’ve never met a female hacker of the highest level. Girls, don’t get offended, I love you." I'll give you it's a bit ambiguous. Let's just say I've never seen anyone voluntarily bring up a point like that and reference skill level unless they are misogynist. There's three interpretations that jump out though: 1. He randomly volunteers that he's never met any women hackers who were also high talent. Without being asked about that. And without bias about whether they exist. 2. He egotistically thinks he's a very talented hacker of the highest level compared to most. He's hasn't met, heard of, or ever attempted to look up any talented women in hacking. (Unusual I'll add.) So, he reflexively says that out of surprise someone would make the mistake he could be a woman since those hackers either don't exist or aren't "highest level." Then drops the line common in sexist statements where (paraphrased) "Women are great in general but not at X." Looks like either a pointless, sexist-looking thing to bring up or a reflection of a sexist mindset on topic of female hackers. I was leaning toward the latter. I'll leave this tangent for now to let others make up their mind on the statement. Nothing further we can glean with so little information.

by awinder 10y ago

"You asked me several times if I’m a man or a woman. I’m a man. I’ve never met a female hacker of the highest level. Girls, don’t get offended, I love you." Oof.

tomp 10y ago

A more reasonable and useful response would be to point out a counter-example.

scottlocklin 10y ago
Can you point out a counter-example?
eli 10y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte_(virus_writer) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte_(virus_writer) I don't know what "highest level" means, but I'm not convinced that Guccifer 2.0 is unusually skilled.
- tomp 10y ago
  Thanks!
mikeyouse 10y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_Rutkowska https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_Rutkowska
- tomp 10y ago
  Thanks!
EthanHeilman 10y ago
Debating the notion of who is a "hacker of the highest level" would be a silly waste of time and is totally subjective and unquantifiable. Are important or highly talented programmers/engineers hackers (not this again)? Is someone who writes clever exploits but doesn't break into networks a hacker? What about a great social engineer with limited technical skills? Or cryptologists? In some of these categories the better you are the fewer people know you exist? The very fact Juice2.0 brings it up reflects poorly on them (assuming this post isn't just disinformation which it could very well be).
- cloakandswagger 10y ago
  "Someone made a statement that doesn't coincide with my worldview? Quick, move those goalposts!"

cloakandswagger 10y ago

Oof? Every other day on HackerNews I see a new post about the dearth of women in tech and how dire the "shortage" is. If there are substantially fewer women in tech, why is it unreasonable to think there are practically no skilled female hackers? (And note that when I use the term 'hacker' I'm referring to the illegal, blackhat variety, not the 'I turned my oven into a WiFi hotspot!' kind)

mikeash 10y ago
Two reasons come to mind. First, "there aren't many" is vastly different statement from "there aren't any." It's not clear which category "I've never met" falls into, but it's easy to take it the wrong way. Second, that whole thing is completely unnecessary. The answer could end at "I'm a man" and be done. He seems to feel a need not only to state his maleness, but to point out that the question is stupid because it's not possible for him to be a women given his skill.
- cloakandswagger 10y ago
  I didn't think it was too irrelevant. He resolves the question of his gender, and then responds with his own personal observation that skilled female hackers are a rarity. Why is there such an embargo on talking about the differences between genders? The only times it is permissible is if you're talking about how women are either superior or discriminated against in some respect.
  - soundwave106 10y ago
    One reason, perhaps, is that too many "differences between genders" discussions (whether it's from one side or the other) devolve into unhelpful discussions about confirmation-bias style "superiority" or "discrimination" and the like. Discussions that try to honestly determine more fact-based reasons for the differences (whether it be biological reasons or social constructs) are rather rare. In this case, that observation was part of a "I have strong hacking skills" boast. So more "oof" for the awful overall tone. I personally suspect a bit of Dunning–Kruger here. My hunch is, while it is true that women in infosec are rare, there probably are women in infosec that have quite a bit stronger skillset than this guy.

jakobegger 10y ago

If you take this part, the references about Terminator and Rambo, and the complaints that Clinton 'didn't earn any money herself' (does he mean because she is was just the presidents wife?), and the admiration for Trump paint a pretty clear picture in my mind. I agree with the others here that middle European mid-thirties sounds likely. I'll add single and frustrated -- because of the sexist comments. From what he wrote on this page, he seems to know just as much about the US elections as an average well informed European would know, so that part sounds plausible. Nothing here sounds like the work of a state actor; a solo script kiddie sounds like the best explanation. For some reason I believe almost everything in this FAQ; Occam's razor and all.

tehayj 10y ago
Besides the US no other country is so picky about "sexist" comments. This is a completely normal attitude in other cultures and not sexist at all (for them, might still be sexist for you).
- jakobegger 10y ago
  It doesn't matter if you consider the comments 'sexist' or not; they just don't sound like they were made by someone in a happy relationship. (Also, I'm not from the US)

nickpsecurity 10y ago

Yeah, he's an idiot or trolling. There's a few on this list... first Google result I found... that make him look positively amateur if we're talking likely skill required for results achieved: http://www.computersciencedegreehub.com/10-notorious-female-hackers/ http://www.computersciencedegreehub.com/10-notorious-female-... A few are new to me for some reason (maybe memory loss). I particularly respect the ones from 80's-90's as one had to put more work into learning the craft back then. It was a combo of information scattered across BBS's plus lots of experimentation alone and in groups.

undersuit 10y ago
Or he just never met any one of the list.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  It's possible but his wording makes me think never looked is more accurate. A reasonable person deciding an issue like this might observe something like "all great hackers I've seen are men" but will do some research before saying "only men are great hackers." That he takes time to push the claim without one Google to test it suggests some form of bad character or judgment at play. ;)
  - undersuit 10y ago
    Does it suggest anything? Aren't you the one making suggestions? This isn't about Googling anything, he states he hasn't met any woman hackers at the highest level. Maybe prove that wrong or misguided instead of casting shade and suspicion that the man is a misogynist.
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      "You asked me several times if I’m a man or a woman. I’m a man. I’ve never met a female hacker of the highest level. Girls, don’t get offended, I love you." I'll give you it's a bit ambiguous. Let's just say I've never seen anyone voluntarily bring up a point like that and reference skill level unless they are misogynist. There's three interpretations that jump out though: 1. He randomly volunteers that he's never met any women hackers who were also high talent. Without being asked about that. And without bias about whether they exist. 2. He egotistically thinks he's a very talented hacker of the highest level compared to most. He's hasn't met, heard of, or ever attempted to look up any talented women in hacking. (Unusual I'll add.) So, he reflexively says that out of surprise someone would make the mistake he could be a woman since those hackers either don't exist or aren't "highest level." Then drops the line common in sexist statements where (paraphrased) "Women are great in general but not at X." Looks like either a pointless, sexist-looking thing to bring up or a reflection of a sexist mindset on topic of female hackers. I was leaning toward the latter. I'll leave this tangent for now to let others make up their mind on the statement. Nothing further we can glean with so little information.