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The comments about honor killings and stoning for adultery are a bit ridiculous. Honor killings usually happen in tribal and rural segments of Pakistan--not the

by ss108 10y ago

The comments about honor killings and stoning for adultery are a bit ridiculous. Honor killings usually happen in tribal and rural segments of Pakistan--not the kinds of people who use Muslim Match. Not all of the users are even from Pakistan, many were probably from the US and the UK, and a lot of the people on there were just genuinely looking for a spouse. Do you guys really think that nobody has premarital sex in places like Pakistan? All that surfaces in the media are stories of some poor raped woman getting tried for adultery (usually in a Gulf Arab country, not Pakistan), or stories of honor killings. Those are real problems for sure, and the cultures of most Muslim countries have devolved during the past century in many ways, but a catalog of dramatic headlines doesn't capture what actually goes on in these countries and how people actually live. I would expect the jump from "Muslim dating site" to "honor killings and stoning" from the comments section of a common newspaper, not Hacker News.

whamlastxmas 10y ago
>usually That word is the sad qualifier to this statement. There are plenty of instances of this happening in popular areas, even outside a well protected courthouse in Pakistan's second largest city by the person's own family: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pregnant-pakistani-womans-public-stoning-draws-outrage/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pregnant-pakistani-womans-public...
mc32 10y ago
Of course premarital sex happens, but I think it's one of those things that people know happen and allow to happen so long as it's not flaunted. The jump may be an expression of concern for the people who could be negatively affected by the disclosure of their activities.
jdmichal 10y ago
> Honor killings usually happen in tribal and rural segments of Pakistan--not the kinds of people who use Muslim Match. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#By_region https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#By_region
jacquesm 10y ago
We even have these so called 'honor' killings here in NL: http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/04/25/honor-killings-rise-netherlands/ http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/04/25/honor-killings-rise-netherl...
antonioneffy 10y ago
Its important to note that Pakistan is pretty damn liberal. The tribal regions and the main land have nothing in common. People have affairs, drink and everything without worrying about death. The tribal regions probably don't even have internet. I didn't expect hacker news to also jump to conclusions like this lol.
philjackson 10y ago
It's exactly the kind of people who use Muslim Match that are at risk. I'm not suggesting that people will die, but there will be awful consiquences from this - especially for females. https://web.archive.org/web/20090106224426/http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/honourcrimes/crimesofhonour_2.shtml https://web.archive.org/web/20090106224426/http://www.bbc.co...
mikeash 10y ago
Here are several examples of honor killings in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_St... I'm sure you can find them in other countries too. The people who use Muslim Match and the people who would commit honor killings aren't the same people. I don't see why it's so unimaginable that a child might use Muslim Match and their parent might think honor killings are necessary.
- hackuser 10y ago
  A few examples of something happening in a country of 300 million is meaningless; I expect more people were struck by lightening. (Also, a Wikipedia article on a hot button issue isn't reliable, IMHO; it's only the product of some partisan(s) willing to spend more time editing than everyone else.)
  - mikeash 10y ago
    The claim isn't that there will be lots of these, so a small number isn't in any way meaningless. If some incident was going to result in a few more people getting struck and killed by lightning, that might well get a similar reaction. If you don't like Wikipedia as a source, the original news stories are all linked at the bottom.
    - hackuser 10y ago
      > If some incident was going to result in a few more people getting struck and killed by lightning, that might well get a similar reaction. I disagree. How many things cause people to die in higher numbers? We wouldn't have time to read about all of them. If you are suggesting that stereotype and demonization of Muslims isn't involved in the response, I have a very hard time believing it. Just look at those things here on HN (where apparently it's ok to say those things about Muslims; the TOS apply only to other groups).
      - mikeash 10y ago
        HN tends to follow stories about tech, science, and other hacker-y things. The fact that this story may involve death is interesting, but it's not why it's getting attention here. But since it gets attention due to its tech content, and since it seems quite possible some death may result, I don't see why that should be ignored just because the numbers are small. I don't see this as stereotyping or demonization. If people were saying that all of these people were going to die, then I could see it. But merely stating it as a possibility is just being realistic. You'd see the same sort of reaction if gaydar.net's user database leaked, just with "Christian" and "driven to suicide" in place of "Muslim" and "honor killing."

by ss108 10y ago

whamlastxmas 10y ago

>usually That word is the sad qualifier to this statement. There are plenty of instances of this happening in popular areas, even outside a well protected courthouse in Pakistan's second largest city by the person's own family: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pregnant-pakistani-womans-public-stoning-draws-outrage/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pregnant-pakistani-womans-public...

mc32 10y ago

Of course premarital sex happens, but I think it's one of those things that people know happen and allow to happen so long as it's not flaunted. The jump may be an expression of concern for the people who could be negatively affected by the disclosure of their activities.

jdmichal 10y ago

> Honor killings usually happen in tribal and rural segments of Pakistan--not the kinds of people who use Muslim Match. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#By_region https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#By_region

jacquesm 10y ago

We even have these so called 'honor' killings here in NL: http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/04/25/honor-killings-rise-netherlands/ http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/04/25/honor-killings-rise-netherl...

antonioneffy 10y ago

Its important to note that Pakistan is pretty damn liberal. The tribal regions and the main land have nothing in common. People have affairs, drink and everything without worrying about death. The tribal regions probably don't even have internet. I didn't expect hacker news to also jump to conclusions like this lol.

philjackson 10y ago

It's exactly the kind of people who use Muslim Match that are at risk. I'm not suggesting that people will die, but there will be awful consiquences from this - especially for females. https://web.archive.org/web/20090106224426/http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/honourcrimes/crimesofhonour_2.shtml https://web.archive.org/web/20090106224426/http://www.bbc.co...

mikeash 10y ago

Here are several examples of honor killings in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_St... I'm sure you can find them in other countries too. The people who use Muslim Match and the people who would commit honor killings aren't the same people. I don't see why it's so unimaginable that a child might use Muslim Match and their parent might think honor killings are necessary.

hackuser 10y ago
A few examples of something happening in a country of 300 million is meaningless; I expect more people were struck by lightening. (Also, a Wikipedia article on a hot button issue isn't reliable, IMHO; it's only the product of some partisan(s) willing to spend more time editing than everyone else.)
- mikeash 10y ago
  The claim isn't that there will be lots of these, so a small number isn't in any way meaningless. If some incident was going to result in a few more people getting struck and killed by lightning, that might well get a similar reaction. If you don't like Wikipedia as a source, the original news stories are all linked at the bottom.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    > If some incident was going to result in a few more people getting struck and killed by lightning, that might well get a similar reaction. I disagree. How many things cause people to die in higher numbers? We wouldn't have time to read about all of them. If you are suggesting that stereotype and demonization of Muslims isn't involved in the response, I have a very hard time believing it. Just look at those things here on HN (where apparently it's ok to say those things about Muslims; the TOS apply only to other groups).
    - mikeash 10y ago
      HN tends to follow stories about tech, science, and other hacker-y things. The fact that this story may involve death is interesting, but it's not why it's getting attention here. But since it gets attention due to its tech content, and since it seems quite possible some death may result, I don't see why that should be ignored just because the numbers are small. I don't see this as stereotyping or demonization. If people were saying that all of these people were going to die, then I could see it. But merely stating it as a possibility is just being realistic. You'd see the same sort of reaction if gaydar.net's user database leaked, just with "Christian" and "driven to suicide" in place of "Muslim" and "honor killing."