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Women in general have less confidence than men. (Study: http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-pspp0000078.pdf http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/

by Jemmeh 10y ago

Women in general have less confidence than men. (Study: http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-pspp0000078.pdf http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-pspp0000078.pd...) That is a gender-specific gap in confidence. That doesn't mean that there are no men with less-than-average confidence out there. Nor does it mean that there are no men who have a hard time because of said lack of confidence.

mpweiher 10y ago
> Women in general have less confidence than men. Women are also generally slower than men (I was once faster than the fastest woman on earth, and I am not a particularly fast man). Not winning 100m races against men is not a sign of gender discrimination, it is a sign that men are faster. So if men are better at being confident, and being confident is important, then that's just that. Women can try to learn to be more confident, but discrimination it ain't.
- Jemmeh 10y ago
  That's exactly what my post said. It says women can work on internalizing confidence, but we should also try to figure out why large amounts of women have less confidence compared to men, and work on that too. Discrimination comes into play when women are frowned upon for being confident. For example when asking for a raise. A man can be seen as a go-getter. But for women, that assertiveness can be seen as bitching or whining. One of the studies from the article covers this. Here is directly linked: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf
  - mpweiher 10y ago
    Should "we" also try to figure out why large amounts of women have less speed compared to men, and work on that, too?
    - Jemmeh 10y ago
      Sorry, I went back and edited my comment but you had already posted. The reason we need to figure out the confidence gender gap issue is because it leads to less opportunities for women. Anyone who is less confident is going to have less opportunities. But for various reasons, women tend to have a lot less confidence than men. Yes, that's something that is partially internal to each person. But the fact that large groups of women tend to be less confident than large groups of men means there are external factors for this too. And it's hard to say, "Okay ladies, well just be more confident then" because when we do become confident, it's frowned upon. That's one of those external issues. No matter how much confidence I could build up within myself, if other people only view it as "bossy", that's an external factor.
      - 1_2__3 10y ago
        You're not actually answering his question.
      - mpweiher 10y ago
        It is just as hard, or harder, for men who are not confident to just say 'well, be more confident', so again, not a gendered issue.
        Jemmeh 10y ago
        But women are more frowned upon for being confident than men. Again, see this study regarding women vs men asking for raises: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf
        mpweiher 10y ago
        Hmm...study seems a bit flawed. For example they ask college students to imagine they are bank HR managers and whether they would hire a candidate that asked for more money. From that they conclude that a bias exists in the real world. However, all they have shown is that college students expect such a bias to exist in the real world.
- collyw 10y ago
  Do you think there is a possibility that men are in general better than women at writing software? It seems politically incorrect to even ask such a question.

by Jemmeh 10y ago

mpweiher 10y ago

> Women in general have less confidence than men. Women are also generally slower than men (I was once faster than the fastest woman on earth, and I am not a particularly fast man). Not winning 100m races against men is not a sign of gender discrimination, it is a sign that men are faster. So if men are better at being confident, and being confident is important, then that's just that. Women can try to learn to be more confident, but discrimination it ain't.

Jemmeh 10y ago
That's exactly what my post said. It says women can work on internalizing confidence, but we should also try to figure out why large amounts of women have less confidence compared to men, and work on that too. Discrimination comes into play when women are frowned upon for being confident. For example when asking for a raise. A man can be seen as a go-getter. But for women, that assertiveness can be seen as bitching or whining. One of the studies from the article covers this. Here is directly linked: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf
- mpweiher 10y ago
  Should "we" also try to figure out why large amounts of women have less speed compared to men, and work on that, too?
  - Jemmeh 10y ago
    Sorry, I went back and edited my comment but you had already posted. The reason we need to figure out the confidence gender gap issue is because it leads to less opportunities for women. Anyone who is less confident is going to have less opportunities. But for various reasons, women tend to have a lot less confidence than men. Yes, that's something that is partially internal to each person. But the fact that large groups of women tend to be less confident than large groups of men means there are external factors for this too. And it's hard to say, "Okay ladies, well just be more confident then" because when we do become confident, it's frowned upon. That's one of those external issues. No matter how much confidence I could build up within myself, if other people only view it as "bossy", that's an external factor.
    - 1_2__3 10y ago
      You're not actually answering his question.
    - mpweiher 10y ago
      It is just as hard, or harder, for men who are not confident to just say 'well, be more confident', so again, not a gendered issue.
      - Jemmeh 10y ago
        But women are more frowned upon for being confident than men. Again, see this study regarding women vs men asking for raises: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf
        mpweiher 10y ago
        Hmm...study seems a bit flawed. For example they ask college students to imagine they are bank HR managers and whether they would hire a candidate that asked for more money. From that they conclude that a bias exists in the real world. However, all they have shown is that college students expect such a bias to exist in the real world.
collyw 10y ago
Do you think there is a possibility that men are in general better than women at writing software? It seems politically incorrect to even ask such a question.